Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

Green light for gay marriages in Massachusetts

State’s high court insists on full rights

The High court of Massachusetts ruled Wednesday that only full, equal marriage rights for gay couples, rather than civil unions, were constitutional, erasing any doubts that the nation’s first same-sex marriages could take place in the state beginning in mid-May.

The state Supreme Judicial Court issued the opinion in response to a request from the state Senate about whether Vermont-style civil unions, which convey the state benefits of marriage, but not the title, would meet constitutional muster.

“The history of our nation has demonstrated that separate is seldom, if ever, equal,” the four justices who ruled in favor of gay marriage wrote in the advisory opinion. A bill that would allow for civil unions but falls short of marriage would make for “unconstitutional, inferior, and discriminatory status for same-sex couples," they added.

Critics of gay marriage immediately attacked the ruling. “Today’s decision ... leaves no doubt what is at stake in Massachusetts,” said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, a religious activist group. “Either the institution of marriage will be protected, or it will be redefined out of existence.”

At the White House, press secretary Scott McClellan called the ruling “deeply troubling.”

“The president has always believed that marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman,” he said. “He is firmly committed to protecting and defending the sanctity of marriage.”

Constitutional convention
The much-anticipated opinion sets the stage for a constitutional convention next Wednesday, at which the Legislature will consider an amendment that would legally define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. Senate President Robert Travaglini had said the vote would be delayed without the opinion.

The soonest a constitutional amendment could end up on the ballot would be 2006, meaning that until then, the court’s decision will be Massachusetts law no matter what is decided at the constitutional convention.

“We’ve heard from the court, but not from the people,” Republican Gov. Mitt Romney said in a statement. “The people of Massachusetts should not be excluded from a decision as fundamental to our society as the definition of marriage.”

Travaglini said he wanted time to talk with fellow senators before deciding what to do next.

“I want to have everyone stay in an objective and calm state as we plan and define what’s the appropriate way to proceed,” Travaglini said.

Conservative leaders said they were not surprised by the advisory opinion and vowed to redouble their efforts to pass the constitutional amendment.

Mary Bonauto, an attorney who represented the seven couples who filed the lawsuit, said she anticipated a fierce battle. “No matter what you think about the court’s decision, it’s always wrong to change the Constitution to write discrimination into it,” she said.

 state-by-state Same-sex marriage laws

In 1996, the federal government passed the Defense of Marriage Act, which defines a marriage as a union between a man and a woman. It also permits states to deny recognizing a same-sex marriage in any state. Such laws have been passed by 37 states.

National reaction
When it was issued in November, the 4-3 ruling set off a firestorm of protest across the country among politicians, religious leaders and others opposed to providing landmark rights for gay couples to marry.

President Bush immediately denounced the decision and vowed to pursue legislation to protect the traditional definition of marriage. Church leaders in the heavily Roman Catholic state also pressed their parishioners to oppose efforts to allow gays to marry.

And legislators were prepared to vote on a proposed amendment to the state constitution that would seek to make the court’s ruling moot by defining as marriage as a union between one man and one woman, expressly making same-sex marriages illegal in Massachusetts.

What the case represented, both sides agree, was a significant milestone in a year that has seen broad new recognitions of gay rights in America and Canada and abroad, including a U.S. Supreme Court decision in June striking a Texas ban on gay sex.

Gray areas remain
Legal experts, however, said the long-awaited decision, while clearly stating that it was unconstitutional to bar gay couples from marriage, gave ambiguous instructions to the Legislature.

Lawmakers remained uncertain whether civil unions went far enough to live up to the court’s ruling or whether actual marriages were required.

When a similar decision was issued in Vermont in 1999, the state’s high court told the Legislature that it could allow gay couples to marry or create a parallel institution that conveyed all the state rights and benefits of marriage. The Legislature chose the second route, leading to the approval of civil unions.

The Massachusetts decision made no mention of an alternative, but it instead pointed to a recent decision in the Canadian province of Ontario that changed the common law definition of marriage to include same-sex couples and led to the issuing of marriage licenses there.

The state “has failed to identify any constitutionally adequate reason for denying civil marriage to same-sex couples,” the court wrote. “Barred access to the protections, benefits and obligations of civil marriage, a person who enters into an intimate, exclusive union with another of the same sex is arbitrarily deprived of membership in one of our community’s most rewarding and cherished institutions.”

Background to case
The Massachusetts case began in 2001, when seven gay couples went to their city and town halls to obtain marriage licenses. All were denied, leading them to sue the state Public Health Department, which administers the state’s marriage laws.

A Suffolk Superior Court judge threw out the case in 2002, ruling that nothing in state law gave gay couples the right to marry. The couples immediately appealed to the Supreme Judicial Court, which heard arguments in March.

The plaintiffs argued that barring them from marrying partners of the same sex denied them access to an intrinsic human experience and violated basic constitutional rights.

Over the past decade, Massachusetts’ high court has expanded the legal parameters of the family, ruling that same-sex couples can adopt children and devising child visitation right for a former partner of a lesbian.

Massachusetts has one of the highest concentrations of gay households in the country, at 1.3 percent of the total number of coupled households, according to the 2000 Census. In California, 1.4 percent of the coupled households are occupied by same-sex partners. Vermont and New York also registered at 1.3 percent, while in Washington, D.C., the rate is 5.1 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4161820/




--Day after Day more and more persons and states are accepting this way of life and seeing it as "normal" wellz now they have gotten equal rights. always thought Jah made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.
What do you guys think of this?

To me personally the whole issue is irrelevant. Now not being gay myself I can't say why people are that way, whether it's genetic as some studies seem to indicate, whether they're influenced that way, whether they have psychological problems or what have you, but at the end of the day it doesn't really affect me. It's not gay people as a group who are trying to deny me housing and employment, who are beating me down and locking me up, it's rich white people whether they gay, straight or indifferent. So I say to each their own as long as you're not a rapist or a child molester or something like that.
As far as the marriage issue, I don't have any particular respect for the legal institution of marriage in the first place; I see no reason why the state and church has to sanction my love for another human being. So the gay marriage thing doesn't really bother me cos I don't care about the whole institution period.
It is true though that gays are getting granted a lot more rights a lot more quickly than Black people. I don't think this is because of any gay conspiracy or anything, I think it's because gays cut across all races and social classes, so there's gonna be a fair number of rich white gays, and rich white people rarely have any problem "standing up for their rights". Normally they don't even have to ask for their rights, they just get them on a silver platter, you see me?

I posted this on another thread.

 

"See how them teaching the youth to play
Cookie monster making a mess everyday
Bugs Bunny is a transvestite I say
Yosemite Sam pull his gun, when he can’t get his way

. . .


Oscar the Grouch living in a trash can
Nintendo teach them how to decapitate man
Oh generation of vipers is their creation
Them filthy up and falsify the Holy Land"

- from Midnite, "Banking in the Pig"

On another note .. . this is also a VERY politrickal move on the part of the Massachusetts lawmakers(and the larger structure they are a part of). Bush and Kerry are going to need issue fodder to feed off of in this coming election.

Legalized homosexual coupling is a potentially volatile issue which both sides(Democans and Republicrats) can play off of.

from: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/02/05/1075853998369.html?from=storyrhs

" . . . US President George Bush has condemned the Massachusetts court ruling allowing gay marriage.

Conservative groups said yesterday that the White House had promised Mr Bush would endorse a move to amend the US constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Mr Bush, in a statement issued by the White House on Wednesday night, stopped just short of explicitly backing a change to the constitution but left little doubt that he was heading in that direction . . . "

Something new has come to the forefront of the debate about gay marriages. It seems that Bush and company could use this issue to ALTER the constitution of the United States. They are using a sensitive topic for many people as a TROJAN HORSE to undertake an altering of the constitution.

We have to be careful about the heartstrings that are pulled by the powers that be . .. as this is the way that fundamental laws are changed. THINK ABOUT IT.

Greetings In The Name of The Most High,

This is a topic that I am very much attached to bcuz i am a lesbian & I think it's rather amusing how ppl (especially those of religions) approach this subject as a perversion. I guess bcuz being "straight" is all they know. Yet, they never think that being attracted to someone of the same sex is all a gay person knows. It's not about trying to be "un-natural" or perverting the way people are believed to be, but it's about accepting yourself & everything that comes along with being you & dealing with the hand you've been dealt.

As far as the marriages, while I do agree that the legal aspect is worth next to nothing to the strenthening of the relationship, it is an important aspect for the simple fact that I can spend my life loving, nurturing, & caring for my partner & if she had a medical emergency I would not even be able to see her. There are also other legal benefits to having that flimsy piece of paper, that move me to pray & long for the equality of the gay community.

Peace.

Many people are fearful of homosexuality out of some sense of misplaced national pride or a mistaken effort to safe guard the national morality. Politicians, statisticians, academics, and especially the medical community have established themselves as world-class liars and because they lie, other people practice the extreme denial of homosexuality. When it comes down to individual sex influence and practice it is ourselves who must decide according to our own conscience.

Why are we condemning homosexuals and lesbians everywhere? Wouldn't life be a lot simpler if people comprehend the beauty of having acceptance?

B.K

Very good point selam. Everyone should be able to benefit from that flimsy paper. What irks me is the proclamation that gay marriage will taint the sanctity of marriage. How? And those politicians seeking to uphold the sanctity of marriage should check some of their less than moral practices.

one love

Iverybody in this lifetime has the ability to do what they want,as we have free will,BUT,the Majority of the people who get married go to a CHRISTIAN priest,and therefore marries under a CHRISTIAN god,therefore,what does LEVITICUS say about SAME SEX:"And if a Man (this also goes for wombman,for the Ible is mostly Man on top)lie with Mankind,as helieth witha wombman,BOTH of them have commited an ABOMINATION:they shall SURELY be put to death,their blood SHALL be upon them.so if the priests are DEVIATING from the law of THEIR god,who knows what else they will make CON-stitutional and un CON-stitutional.

i ONLY used this scripture of the old testament because its THEIR GODS laws,and their god is CLEARLY a god of Imbalance and war.Selah

First off, I understand everyone has the right to do what they want and be who they are,It just plays on my mind how can be this way and honestly I dont undertsand why they are.It is just Wrong in all thinkable ways but that is My view.
And Im sticking by saying that Jah created Adam to be with Eve and not with Steve are even the other way around.
The whole green light for gay marriages does taint marriage.
Marriage is the whole foundation of life where man and woman gets married live together in union and bring forth youth but that is not possible in gay marriages and even if it is what a disgusting environment to bring up a child in.Gay Marriages are fine for those who choose to do it, soon enough people would be allowed to marry anything,soon they may just say it is a fine and dandy that a man can marry his goat or a woman can marry her dog.
Whether belong to religion or not everyone knows right from wrong.

-It is great to see what the world is coming too, :-/ but if they have start to Legalize gay Marriages and allowing them to adopt and raise kids around the world and let it become such a trend and think that is A OK and so great then Im guessing they are thinking of Legalizing all the other "so called" ABOMINATIONS and BLASPHEMIES eg: prostition,cannibalism and other barbaric ills. Next Thing ya know they would legalize extasy and cocaine as well and the world would be so fine n dandy.

Proably they even Legalize Marijuana one day.

Humans are socially constructed creatures - in many ways, what they see around them reflects inwardly and influences behavior. This culture has ones trying just about everything except liberating from materialism - and I really feel that it is not JUST about accepting yourself but rather a new thing to try.

It is the morals and ethics of a society that are its foundation - and I will go so far as to say it is important for them to be stuck to to maintain a level of conduct. I overstand the implications of the past where morals are enforced and all the fascism that is instituted so ones are kept in a certain mold- but I feel this is an extreme example. Every culture in the world has a set of morals and ethics that foster cohesion amongst the people.

I overstand the political ramifications of this topic as well, which is part of the polarity which keeps the political engine churning. There are many different levels to this topic - and it is important to see as many as possible. I hopefully I have shown some of the levels in my various posts on this topic.

I will say this much though - these laws are not about the elite, because they have been involved in every kind of sexual perversion known - these laws are about you and me. Public faces and private faces are VERY different.

Greetings to All!

Two points on this subject:  (1)Marriage is a social construct, provided for accountability. (2)  The reason same sex unions were an abomination had nothing to do with morality what so ever....quite frankly same-sex behavior was so rampant during Biblical times, this law was instituted because  it was irresponsbile and an abomination to waste the semen and not procreate in order to  perpetuate their nation.  HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALS! Sorry!

Yeefon Abena Mawusi

Indeed, you are entitled to your own opinion no matter how discriminatory it can be.


You really demonstrate the intolerant (heinous) mentality that has been bastardized by religious ignorance. Cosmic love and acceptance emanates form the Divine thought, so how then people can be so intellectually confused to think that homosexual is unnatural? The Divine give us inclination or tendency that are germane because it unable us to follow the experimental path that encourage the growth of wisdom within us. Every single person on this planet must live according to his or her own conscience to master his or her spirit. You are pushing the personal responsibility of your own life onto another shoulder by saying the Divine wants you (or other people) to live this way or this other way. You can't say that. It is being irresponsible. The Divine wants you to fulfill YOUR OWN inclinations or tendencies without misguided thoughts and actions that are judgmental or detrimental to you or others.


Marriage is an extremely personal and individual issue. It is based on LOVE, or should be. Love should be the determining factor here. The greatest depth of love surpasses all the superficial aspects of an individual gender, occupation, religious affiliation, or even ethnicity of one's mate.  Denial prevents growth. Every person should accept who he or she is.


Oh, please ! The whole idea of humans' beings marrying animals is baffling and utterly ridiculous. You total disrespect for people's freedom and disdain of other people that's "different" from the rest is immature and un-African. Grow up! It is ought to the people to decide their sexual preferences, not the leaders. This dictatorial attitude of the majority of the world populate must be remedied, in order for us all to develop unity and balance in this planet. We have more important issues like racist social and economic systems, police violence, hunger, drugs, and disease than what people do in their bedrooms.


B.K

Greetings In The Name of The Most High,

Doing or not doing something on the basis that, "It's just wrong!" will lead to contradiction in any issue... We as idren in search of the truth should never except that anything is "simply wrong" without searching for the deeper meaning. Much respect to we that stand up for our beliefs, for no matter what others say, or how we may disagree, there is no force that can draw us away from the truth JAH has chosen to reveal to us. If you say it's wrong, know it's wrong, not that someone, something, or some society says it's wrong. Make it a truth to i-self, not just a fact.

NAZARITE, you mentioned a specific excerpt from Leviticus... I encourage you to present the entire passage regarding these abominations. I'm sure you've read it all & are aware that it also included farming a certain way an abomination. Pointing that out to say, that the books of the Holy Bible were written to a certain people of a certain time. Had they cross-planted (not a "real" term) they would have killed themselves. Today that has nothing to do with us. It is completely obsolete in our day & time. I don't govern my life by excerpts of scripture, but the Spirit of Jah that lives within me... I can't even honestly say that the text I read is full proof (rather as I read it I pray for HIS spirit to guide me) for there is only one thing that assures me what is right & wrong, true & untrue: THE I N I.

IYAH, you shared your thoughts of gay orientation as a "new thing to try"... Not trying to change your views, just offering a diff way to look at things: Had I never enjoyed the comfort of running water, I would not understand the need for it. You have not & are not gay, therefore your opinion of a person's needs or wants for it are completely biased. Not saying you should become gay to better understand or that you should not think the way you do, simply that you should consider your lack of knowledge of a certain path before forming such a strong condemnation or assumption of those that walk it.

Peace.

Selam,

You should live your life free from the assumption that the Creator Source exert a magnetic command on your earthly existence. You too remove all personal responsibility form yourself when you speak "In The Name of" The Most High or JAH. Your sexual preferences come within yourself not form some other exterior factor. It is you who decide for your own conscience not a cosmic scapegoat.  

B.K

[shadow=red,left,300]NAZARITE, you mentioned a specific excerpt from Leviticus... I encourage you to present the entire passage regarding these abominations. I'm sure you've read it all & are aware that it also included farming a certain way an abomination. Pointing that out to say, that the books of the Holy Bible were written to a certain people of a certain time. Had they cross-planted (not a "real" term) they would have killed themselves. Today that has nothing to do with us. It is completely obsolete in our day & time. I don't govern my life by excerpts of scripture, but the Spirit of Jah that lives within me... I can't even honestly say that the text I read is full proof (rather as I read it I pray for HIS spirit to guide me) for there is only one thing that assures me what is right & wrong, true & untrue: THE I N I. [/shadow]

use this logic for a minute,ceratin plants have to use certain seeds for it to grow,if u get married by a christian priest,shouldnt u go by the rules of this book?even in the New testament,u dont hear je-sus talking about the union of samesex,but of man & wombman.if gays get married by a christian priest,FOLLOW THE RULES FROMWHENCE IT CAME.i OVERstand that this is the card u were dealt in this life and ur playing with it,but no matter how "gay' u r,u have the power to change urself.if u think this is the right way for u to live,fine,but i HUMBLY ask,what does NATURE (which is the most PERFECT example of Womb/man)teach u?this i dont think anyone could doubt.

Really, though, Nazarite, you can boil down all of Jesus' teachings to two commands or requests:  Love me and love each other.  If two men love each other, then that is that.  And you, being a good Christian, should love them too.

Raspectfully,

Joshua Liontree

This same argument can be used to justify anything. Most people in the West don't need 75% percent of the things they think they NEED to survive, they have been indoctrinated by the culture of convenience and materialistic obsession to believe they need it in order to survive. We are socially conditioned creatures - when there are new variables added to the mix, this influences the behaviors and need/wants of the individuals. for example, i know many who all of a sudden find they can't live w/out the convenience of a cell phone. this was not an innate urge one had - it was a function of a theater created by advertisement and corporate hegemony - needs and situations that were not thought about previously that all of a sudden rendered the land line as too archaic.

this is how the psychology of the west works, they rule us through superior psychology - it is not hard to introduce a new theme, issue, product to the mass market and have it be the next huge thing.

The part which was mentioned about persons being married to animals isn't something that i created or something out a fairy tale, it was a statement made by a gentleman on the news when this whole legalizing of gay marriages arose and I choose to state it cause anything is possible no matter how ridiculous it may seem to others.
And I dont think I disrespected no one in no way by just stating my views and I apologize if others think so but as  I stated at the beginning of my post this is just my VIEWS.
and i do agree they are other important issues.

Bless

Greetings In The Name of The Most High,

Interesting points made by all...

BANTU, I am in no way blaming my wrong or right doings on any force. Please forgive me if that's what it sounds like. Every decision I make is mine. I am not saying I have no control over what I chose to do, what I am saying is that I have always had a desire to love one sex over the other. I made the decision to follow that desire. I made the decision to also pray about it bcuz so many say it's wrong & at the end of MY day & the end of MY prayers, the I N I was at peace with MY decision. Who am I to blame my petty decsions on JAH, for HE has far more important things to dwell upon. I may interpret HIS voice wrong & I may be in wrong. I'm not saying I'm not. Simply saying that I am at peace with my decsion & I feel like JAH is as well.

NAZARITE, I am not a Christian & do not wish to ever enter their doctorine of marriage. Neither do I chose to believe that the KING JAMES VERSION of any Holy writing is the final authority. Who knows what jesus christ said... we only know what he said according to KING JAMES. Any source of doctorine can be tainted once it gets to our hands years later. Which is why I emphasize letting JAH guide my eyes as I read.

Also, I am not saying that I can't change. JAH has given me the power to overcome all things certainly a simple desire can be conquered. As far as what nature teaches us... I honestly have no idea why my way of life is so contradictory of nature. I often wonder why I am so opposite & sometimes wish it was easier to be like everyone else & like "nature" intended (as most would say). I am in search of that answer & I know the fact you speak of, but I have yet to find my truth in it.

Peace

There is absolutely no evidence that is worth looking at in the scientific research annals suggesting that homosexuals can be turned into bestiality fans! Far more heterosexuals adults practice bestiality, child pornography and incest. Thus, your arguments are weak and suggest hypocritical arguments on behalf of a deviant life-style. Should adults be free to make their own decisions about sex and marriage when these decisions have no direct impact on you and others? This is what you need to be asking yourself. It's time for the Black/Africans and others that hide behind the mask of religion and conservative concepts such as righteousness, family values and patriotism to accept and give homosexuals and lesbians the right to be themselves. It is selfish to deny others their rights with petty reasons, indeed, with no reason at all. IMO, when you don't respect another's person right to have a different lifestyle, belief or philosophy, you can't have a deep respect for life in general.

B.K

"Many people are fearful of homosexuality out of some sense of misplaced national pride or a mistaken effort to safe guard the national morality. Politicians, statisticians, academics, and especially the medical community have established themselves as world-class liars and because they lie, other people practice the extreme denial of homosexuality."

"The Divine give us inclination or tendency that are germane because it unable us to follow the experimental path that encourage the growth of wisdom within us. Every single person on this planet must live according to his or her own conscience to master his or her spirit."

It would do all of us to contemplate what Bantu_Kelani has said ...

   I have to admit how humerous I think it is when people feel so strongly against gay marriage and homosexuality altogether.  I am not gay and never will be, but who am I to judge those who are.  I think it's hularious that this topic is even discussed within our politics today and that bills must be passed in order for gays to be legaly married.  If someone is gay, how does that affect my life?  It doesn't at all.  Why should my opinion (vote) count towards someone's life and happiness?  The fact that two people are gay and want to take their relationship to the next level doesn't impact my life or cause a problem for me in any way so why are we the one's to decide if they should be able to be married or not.
 I've heard many people complain that if homosexuals are able to get married that they have to accept their way of life.  That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.  Homosexuals already have to accept people that disagree with their lifestyle, let alone people who are trying to run it.  The Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that everyone is equal so why are we even debating on this issue?  If you can't handle seeing displays of homosexuality, then don't look at it.  
   For those religious people, that say God is against it, you should know more than anybody that God loves everyone, good or bad.  He does not judge so why are you?
   I understand the fact that some will never agree with this topic, and thats ok, but your opinion should be just that.  Keep it to yourself and let everyone have their own.  Your opinions should not be able to pass laws that don't relate to your lives or that affect everyone else's accept your own.  
When two people love each other, there is no right and wrong.
 I am not for gay marriage and i'm not against it either.  To tell you the truth I really don't care what other people are doing with their own lives, it's pretty much a waste of time to become so wrapped up in the whole matter.  I 've got more important things to worry about in my own life.

Hotep sisters and brothers

There is two types of homosexuals one of them is people who practice homosexuality for the esoteric and paganism reasons, the other type are people who practice homosexuality for pleasure. In the laws of the universe negative and positive energies must meet to create life if you go against creation you are severely disciplined. The universe could not have been created without negative and positive energies as poetic princess stated. If a person believes in life after death or reincarnation then they would not practice homosexuality, he or she will also call upon negative forces beyond the flesh realm if they go against the laws of creation. Women who practice body building or do allot of things that was meant for the male to do intentionally then in the after life her feminine soul will be reincarnated into a human male’s body and exactly the same for the male.
Then when your born you seek not your opposite sex to form a relationship, these things have happened even in ancient afrika the advice from the priest or elders of that society to such a persons, would be to live a life of celibacy and to dedicate your life to priesthood until the appointed time of your soul to depart.
The person can also live as nature commands her body or his body to live but this requires discipline and that’s an emotion humans have almost lost totally.
Where not on this earth because we are perfect creatures where here to repay karma until we no longer have karma to repay we will keep on coming back till the day of judgement.