Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

Many represented here:

http://sirismm.si.edu/siris/eepaculturegroup.htm

These pictures are amazing Iyah360. Thanks for sharing!!

B.K

WHOA!! These are deep...

Nice post

The continuous representation of Black Africa as Bush Africa, and Poor Africa and Laid back Simple Africa as opposed to Dynamic rich Africa and Modern Africa and City Africa is extremely upsetting.

To get it straight that i am not complaining rather i am pointing out my observations. That there is a stereotypical image of Africa that is transmitted into mainstream Western Culture is just the reality of Western Dynamics.

The projection of certain images that are not backed up with an explanation that will lead the viewer to a better understanding of what is being observed is misleading to say the least.

There is a consensus in this society and even with Africans themselves that Africa offers nothing of value other than the superficial appreciation of its smiling people that appear to be happy in spite of the extreme poverty and stagnancy of its culture and people.

This perception breeds the devaluation of Africa and Africans. A peoples greatness is measured (in the west) primarily by the advances they make in society, their buildings, their social intricacy and make up, their schools, their architecture, their roads, and the efficiency of the agriculture and so on.

Pictures such as this depict nothing of the such, they depict nothing that can create Value in the mind of the Western minds that look upon them.

I believe that this continuous misrepresentation of Africa is a deliberate act to create a devaluation of Africa and Africans.

Being African i having been to Africa i have never seen such conditions of living before that was represented in those pictures. Granted that Africa is a Continent and not a Country... Still i saw out of all the picture one not very impressive two story building, save from the Grand buildings of the Church and Colonial Houses.

The whole Slide "Show" is Terrible, absolutely Terrible...The whole Show resembled a freak show fest. I know thats a horrible thing to say, but its true. And you wonder why most African Americans want to be disassociated from Africa, i would too, if these where the things being shown to me as All Africa was.

I agree that the media does a horrible job in depicting Africa. There is much more too us then bush life and Lions. However I think these pics are meant to capture cultures and cultural life more then anything else. If they were using these pics to depict African countries then I wouldn't be too happy with them.

Kwegan,
It is well known that Black Africans suffer from acute self-esteem like you probably. You are speaking of buildings, schools, architecture and roads. Why are you so attached to our oppressors' judgment? If you take a step back and look at your comment rationally, it is simply is ridiculous, for your continent is rich in culture beyond western technologies. Although native Africans are the poorest people on this earth, many of us still strive to overcome our struggles and make major artistic and intellectual impact in this world. Black Africans have a stunning and colorful culture. Truly all you have to do is look at the many pictures on thie site above to discover it... We, as Black African people, have many problems. And yes Africa can use the buildings, schools, architecture, roads, all the knowledge, skills the West can offer, but Africa magnificence and power rely on its ability to strive as time passes! In due time it will abolish worldwide Afro-pessimism with Worldwide African-optimism and reverse the enslavement, colonization and poverty the West forced on us. Let us not allow the West influence our self-esteem and way of life, as their images and culture are certainly not superior.

Bantu Kelani.

I don't think you read my reply, or you don't understand.

What you or i think is one think, and what others think is another. And when i say others, i specifically mean African Americans and other Africans that will come into contact with depictions such as this.

there is a problem when the only images of Africa are of a certain region. The problem is not with the pictures, some of them are Gorgeous-in my eyes. But my eyes are not what the majority or Western Africans use to look at AFrica.

I could give a rats ass what white America sees or what White America or Europe think about who we are.

Africa is much more than is depicted there in those pictures...and those pictures carry a racist connotation.

I think its jolly that you have ascended and can see what most people who look at those pictures cannot see, but that still does not take away from the INTENTION that are behind those "exhibitions" nor does it take away from the perspective of the Western African who will look at those pictures and believe that the Trans Atlantic slave trade was a blessing in disguise.No matter how wrong those feelings are, they have a legitamate basis in reality.

And i think that there needs to be FIRST a representation of Africa that will Attract as well give value to Africans outside the Continent.

I understood your post perfectly Kwegan but let me tell you that most Diaspora Blacks, because most of them know nothing about Africa, have a typical aversion in associating themselves with Africa and Africans anyway, even without the negative effects of Caucasian historical and mediatic interpretations (yet they insist on being called African??). I tell you, the Caucasian has screwed the truth up so much, it is not surprising that Blacks like you are not proud of their African brothers and sisters in their realness so fine and necessary. First you said the photos were beautiful, and then you said you are ashamed of them. There seems to be some element of indecisiveness in you, due to I believe a serious self-hatred sentiment at work. Why so many children of Africa try to deny the ROOTS beauty of Africa? Look at these pictures again. They represent blackness in its genuine personality! These people are not westernized Africans strutting boring western garbs, chemical hair relaxed and skin bleached so ingrained in our communities. Should we be proud of such authentic African esthetic or just denigrate our roots people and not fight against the inferiority complex that is destroying us? It is not ironic that you don't see many if any European and Arab being conflicted over their natives to the extent of totally denigrates and or dissociate with them. For instance, European whites of the rural areas of Russia still live in a marginalized way. They still live in hunting and gathering in the forest areas of the tundra, their houses are poorly built etc. Yet, no European perceives them as "underdeveloped", classifies them as "degrating" or even "repulsive".

You don't know how many times I have ignorant people (Black and white) coming to me thinking that Africa is a land of backward, primitive, savage and even cannibal people. Still I let them know all things indigenous African participated in. From pre-historical times to 1500 AD indigenous Africans were in the head in the development of science, culture and technology: from ancient Nubians-Kush, Khemetcu, Sumerians, Babylonian Elamites, Black Sabeans of South Arabia, Kushitic colonists in India, the Shang Dynasty in China, Carthage, the Dogons in Mali, Dahomians, Ashanti etc. etc. Black Africans were far in advance of Europeans and Arabs people living to the north of them as regards to schools, architecture, buildings, transportation, ships and roads! Our native civilization have gone in decline only about 1450-1500 AD when the European explorers and traders established their inhuman chattel slavery in Africa, the Caribbean and the Americas; also when they took away the rich trans-Saharan trade from our ancestors among other things. Yes, it is historical that the Caucasian invaders are responsible of the devastation in Africa so widespread that our high culture never recovered. However any educated and conscious Black person is comfortable with the true image of Blacks and Africa as it represents the vestige of our vibrant and unique culture and way of life. It's offensive to denigrate natives and authentic Africans, for our true nature and cultural traits is not the same as the Chinese, Japanese, Hindus, Westerners and Islamics! Above all, the true knowledge about Africa and Black people is not confined to Caucasian or westernized Blacks historical, cultural, industrial, scientific or aesthetical interpretations and certainly not appreciations.


Bantu Kelani.

You are not the only person in this world who is in love with their people so lets get that out the way from the get go.

If you can get over yourself for a second you would see that i am not disagreeing with you on the most part. We are on the same side here don't forget that, and i do not appreciate you trying to put me into a category that is far from reality.

I don't know where you get off making assumptions about my character and state of mind from one single thread. You refuse to open your mind to what it is that i am saying. You reality sister is not everyone elses and though your state of awareness is higher than most it still does not NEGATE THE FACT THAT IN OTHER THAT YOU BRING OTHERS TO YOUR LEVEL YOU MUST FIRST REACH BACKWARDS.

MY point and if you took your ego out of it for one second is not about how i see these pictures. And let me spell it out for you again...IT IS NOT HOW I SEE THESE PICTURES or HOW I VIEW THESE PICTURES and even HOW YOU SEE THESE PICTURES. The question is how the Africans in the WEST SEE these pictures, and how they Respond and what how the social dynamics influences the messages that these picture project.

take yourself out of this, and take me out of this...(i have self-esteem issues thats great that you don't, but again we can't all be as perfect as you) and lets be realistic about how these pictures perpetuate a stereotype of Africa and Africans which is not necessarily true.

Without looking at whether Black Americans are wrong in their lack of understanding and insight on Africa, generally speaking, the fact remains that these connotations and Values and disvalues are ATTACHED TO PICTURES that PRESENT AFRICANS as living in huts and dancing happily through life.

When they Depict other countries such as China, India, Brazil...the majority of the images the public is bombarded with is NOT of the Rural (no matter how beautiful) communities, we see cities we see beaches, we see night life...things whether you LIKE OR NOT, that Westerners are attracted to and attach to a Civilization. Things that Black Americans will look at and see and prefer.

A lot of African Americans go to the Islands for their vacations...does not Jamaica have rural communities (no matter how beautiful)? But what do you see when you think of Jamaica...you see blue beaches...carnival...you see modern civilization.

Western Blacks have been here long enough to start to think and value what the white society puts value on. The fact that Africa is predominately shown in a certain light is no accident.

That is my only point, so please do not put words into my mouth, or try to psychoanalyze me, cause you ain't that good...

You have a serious passion, that i admire from some of your articles that i have read. And its strange having someone defend Africa against me for once. So i am not mad at you, i totally understand where you are coming from.

But beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder and you are one person and so am i. The underlying connotations exist in these pictures whether you choose to see it or not, someone else can, the majority of people can, so that makes you and I the minority.

I'm not saying to not celebrate how beauty, or our traditions, i am saying that most people do not see it as beauty, but something to hold there nose up to, most people don't understand the complexities.

Lets also have a balance of Municipal images and metropolitan images of Africa. Cause it does exist the representation of the Yoruba, Hausa, and Ibo people is total Alien to what i know of Nigeria and Nigerians, why is that?

What is the meaning behind the omitting of certain characteristics of Africa....shouldn't that be what is at the fore front since that is what this society attaches Value to?

As I look around the US, where I currently live, I see more and more brothers and sisters from all over the Diaspora who I know have the spirit of African pride and liberation in them just as strong as in me. So I don't really buy the crap that the conspirational European-American media and historical interpretations drive all Africans in the Diaspora to loath and dissociate utterly with Africa and its population. And you should know that Western propaganda is only efficient on the ignorant brothers and sisters of this planet who have no pride or love of race. I notice despite your eloquent words your way of thinking has a tendency of viewing things in a WESTERN WAY. It is an Anglo-American (if you live in the US) empiricism that you seek to ape in Africa. And if you truly like our Black brothers and sisters accept their authenticity, freedom and simple but harmonic ways with Nature and self. I truly believe that the rebirths of the Black race will start when within ourselves we accept ourselves without the patronage of our masters or the Uncle Toms of the world. You know, it is because westerners have plundered Africa and are continuing to pea in the African traditions soup that a lot of our brothers and sisters on the continent are dwindling in psychophysical power and influence. Hence, why are you looking in shame at our STILL resilient and vibrant natives? They are certainly not the ones to disrespect..Therefore, it occurs to me that you are in dire need of a debriefing from the intoxication of western ideology, although in your denial you disagree as expected. I recur the depths of African history, the depth of our people rise above other peoples ideologies, even the ones of the westernized/brainwashed Africans. Afrocentric philosophers, thinkers and artists frequently encourage and empower this idea thereby seek to amend the vision of Black people in all places even in Malaysia, Australia and the Middle East as well. Their goals is to educate the world of the roots llifestyles and beauty of dark skinned people so important for all humans in this planet so they can appreciate our traditional culture and capability. This prove to you I am not the only one supporting this stance. As the great brother Malcolm X stated: "Hating Africa (appealing to westerners or not -my own quote) is hating myself". Thanks to the philosophies and opinions of our African liberation fighters, I understand that it is only when we brake form the Eurocentric emotional thought that we can restructure our development and aesthetics in our own glorious and ancestral African way!

Our natural dark pigmentation, our kinky hair, traditional body-arts, scarifications, sophisticated or plain temples, dwellings and buildings metropolitan or not must be acknowledged for their OWN value to all humanity's creative heritage! Further, the western mediatic depictions of South Asia, India, Latin American coutries, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, St Lucia, Brazil, Guyana, Antigua and Cuba, to name but a few, deny the reality of these countries, for  a lot of their inhabitants are living in poverty and some of them are even trying to flee the country as we speak. The European and American propagandists forsake the social, governmental and developmental problems of these nations that make their depictions utterly distorted of course. The archaism, oppression and depravation of the inhabitants of these countries are virtually unknown on western screen television or print media although it is blatant after 500 years of slavery, colonialism and exploitation all Black people of the world suffer from poverty, inferior education and many diseases continually perpetuated by the Caucasians and Negro leader oppressors. Therefore, a full appreciation of African genius and beauty is to be cleared of western propaganda and concepts, at any rate alien to the REALITY of the majority of Black Africans and ideologies of the true Nationalist, Afrocentric and traditionalist Africans. In your posts you are giving evidence that bitterness and poverty have triggered in Black people a disgust of our original/roots selves. And I still cry to you all to seriously start loving yourselves IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, this means loving all Black people in rich nations as in poor nations thus respecting each others, sticking together as ONE just as the Jews, Chinese, Japanese and Hindus ALWAYS stick together and have helped each other to create better standards of living. It is pitiable to see after our physical freedom 100 years ago Black Africans continue to be arrogant for their detriment. As our rich and westernized Blacks scorn and maltreat the natives' poor by subjecting them to the rank of "primitives" and "savages" and force on them harsh employment practices as taught by the white masters, who we continue to follow as an example for our ruin.

Lastly, I am not saying that we have to comply in extreme depravation (and I have to say that I have seen neither a single famished person by extreme paucity nor a repulsive person by the filth of savegery on these pictures by any means). All I am saying is that we have to love our rich traditional lifestyle in any circumstances without the consent of our contempory masters and Uncle Toms out there. In my personal instance, I have lived in Congo a natural and traditional lifestyle and I would have changed this existence for all the trillions of whatever in this world, for I recall my life was decent and "civilized" in the Congo even under the rule of the despot Mobutu Sese Seko. The socio-economic infrastructures in my country (and in all the central Africa) truly collapsed with the genocides that started 13 years ago. Nevertheless, I stay ROOTS and proud in spite of the many scorn and hardship like a Jew, Native American, Hindu and Arab person. Indeed, as ALL PEOPLE OF THIS PLANET it is imperative we appreciate our enduring natives may they be rich or poor and stop promoting alien or westernized values and depictions that do not conform to the reality and the norms of the true Nationalist, Afrocentric and traditionalist Africans and never will.
 

Bantu Kelani.

Let the Western thing rest for a second lady...you love arguing....i don't have the same spirit for it that you do.

The people you know is NOT THE GLOBAL AFRICAN COMMUNITY.

You have a lot to offer and some valids things you say, but you will be forever locked in that one spot and possition you are and you will never grow.

You are very lock minded.

In case you ain't noticed Blacks in Western Society have been reared by Western thought and Way of thinking, we being me included think whether we realize it or not, in a European Mindset...some of us are in denile.

The mere fact that you communicate in English and then French too...is the Ultimate of Western Mindset Characteristic. You unlike I have grown to except the images transmitted by places like the BBC and Smithsonian as being ALL of what Beautiful Africa is, which is WRONG. Our Beauty and strenght do not lie only in Rural Areas.

You accuse me of having self esteem issues and Hating my own because i believe that the types of images braodcasted out of Africa is mostly always destructive and negative, and showing Africa and Africans in ceratin conditions?

Is it not True...Am i Lying...?

My father is Nigerian and my Mother Togolese....lived in both countries at some point in my life and i Know how my people are Traditional...and how my people are Beautiful, and we are not Beautiful and traditional, because we live in a certain area or live in hut.

You have a lot of good this to say...And i don't think that we should be arguing or wasting energy trying to make me the enemy when the real war is outside of us.

I guess I'll put my 2 cents in...

On this site in particular, pictures of us Africans in our natural and traditional cultural state should never be looked at as negative. For me...being an African born and raised in the West, it is quite refreshing. I surround mself with these possitive images of MYSELF/OURSELVES to combat the negativity around me daily. I disagree that most depictions of Africans are in "huts"...that may have been true in the past...but not today. Today the Western propoganda machine depicts most Africans on the continent as living in Urban slums and having tribal conflicts! We rarely see traditional life(our pre-colonial existance)...most of the glimpses we see via western propaganda are because of shows dedicated to the wildlife of Africa, and ehtnic conflicts on CNN (they may HAVE to go to a rural village to get the animals filmed, and if we are killing each other they HAVE to broadcast that, of course the reasons behind it are never given).

Personally, I see nothing beautiful about Africans living in the urban environment here or at home. The overwelming majority of us live in poverty in the city, so I don't see why that is so great. The masses are suffering, what's good about showing the few that aren't? We need to get over trying to corrolate and justify ourselves by "western" standards of lifestyle. I understand many of the Africans in the West think that there aren't even cities in Africa(Will Smith said he didn't know until he made the movie Ali...shame on him for not going home before that)...but that is because of pure ignorance of self, not just because of the current western propoganda. The enemies media machine cannot be used to repair the African immage(africans don't control it). We can only repair ourselves by organizing and educating the masses. Africa and her  people(at home and abroad) will always be depicted in a negative light by her enemies, if not in a "negative" light, we are portayed as trying our hardest to be as "European/White" as possible, which is just as negative. Either way it is not our reality, and never will be until we have self determination.

I think the pictures on this site are beautiful and need to be showed more, so that our cultural strength can be demonstrated to our people. European conquest didn't destroy our traditional life...that is wonderful, and something to be proud of.    

A valuable lesson I have learned is that THE WAY an idea is presented is just as important as the idea. I look at the roots people of Africa, and through my research have learned that it is from these people that the WORLD owes the origins of the worlds religion, culture and civilization. These two things(the image AND the HISTORY)perhaps should be presented TOGETHER to the prejudiced western audience in order to destroy inherent illusions of superiority complex. As a Caucasian American, it was THIS COMBINATION THAT TRUELY OPENED MY EYES AWAY FROM A RACIST UPBRINGING and into OVERstanding. This of course involved much self work and challenging assumptions that are fostered from childhood which I will admit is EXTREMELY hard for Caucasian people to do (as should be obvious from the many posts on this site). BUT . . . it IS POSSIBLE . . . perhaps it is in the best interest for us together to develop an EFFECTIVE educational method to deal with these problems.

For example:

It is interesting to study some of the ideas of the Mbuti of the Ituri forest . .. they say that they have deliberately chosen to live simply for the mere fact they already KNOW what the outcome of misguided civilization leads to . . . destruction, corruption and death -- (this is one of the most advanced conclusions to ever be reached by human beings . . . yet from a western eye, all we see is the "backwardness" of these people) -- it is from this perspective that they developed one of the most advanced ethical systems ever devised and more importantly PRACTICED. It is from this code of ethics that sprang the 42 negative confessions of the Egyptians which was co-opted into the 10 commandments of the "Jews".

So now, if one looks at the apparent simplicity of these people JUXTOPOSED with a TRUE HISTORY lesson, the picture becomes clear . . . this can do MUCH to defuse racism within the individual confronted with this presentation.

Quotes from Kwegan:


 

I think what is emerging here is a skewed idea that ‘modernity’ (and I use this term quite guardedly) automatically means advancement. The fact that there are modern, westernized cities in Africa of the nature that I assume you refer to, is as a result of a colonial legacy that has damaged millions of minds, of Africans in Africa, of Africans in the Diaspora and yes, of Europeans who are now disconnected form their own African roots. It is this piece of history that has brought these ‘modern’ cities to Africa at the cost of millions of lives. I honestly see nothing there to celebrate.  

You also state that the images on the website posted originally are images of  ‘poor Africa’ and ‘bush Africa’. Well many of these cultures represented here have lived in harmony with their landscape for centuries, they may be seen as monetarily poor by modern western standards but those standards are certainly not my own. It is also good to remember that many of these same indigenous cultures are not rural at all but quite urban. African cities, ports and trading towns are the blue prints for the modern European cities today. Many of the yardsticks by which we measure development and advancement are quite dangerously flawed. It is similar to earlier Europeans saying a country, region or people had no government system because it did not resemble the systems of European manufacture. Also there is the racist statement that many of us have grown up learning in our school history books, that ‘Civilization’ starts when a culture has a script and begins to record its history. Certainly we see how this negated many many ancient, glorious world cultures, not just African ones.  In these times where newly emerging thrust is toward sustainable development and poorer countries using their resources and natural skills for the benefit of their own people, the idea of ‘development’ and what constitutes development becomes crucial. Now living in harmony with nature certainly does not have to mean poverty, and living true to ancient traditions does not have to mean it either. But what may be required is a paradigm shift to see this discussion objectively. Especially in terms of what constitutes development.

Another thing is your concern about how westerners and Diaspora Africans view Africa. I can see why this would concern anyone, especially an African. Diaspora Africans tend to be often rather naïve about African history and even more so about the African present. However we must see the hailing of our indigenous cultures in their natural state as a very big first step for the African in the Diaspora who needs to identify with his or her ancient culture. This is not just for a sense of cultural identification but also the redressing of ancestral wrongs where we were taught that our people had nothing of value before Europeans came. How pointless it would then be to hail European influences in Africa over the indigenous, vibrant lively cultures from which all world cultures sprung? The point is getting the source, the root, and the ancestry. That is the first step. And a mighty one indeed. While you may be right to infer that many do not see these depictions as being of value, that does not excuse us colouring the picture to suit their tastes of what they may want to see of Africa, especially as the urban reality of most Africans is not too rosy either. While perhaps an excusable stage in ones development may be to see those who were trodden upon have the same material excesses and trappings as their oppressors, this certainly cannot be the end of the journey and certainly leads nowhere. What we must do is start from the source, the further backward we look the further forward we look…

As someone from the Caribbean I must comment on your statement about the depiction of countries, especially Caribbean countries by the mass media. You seem to believe that the depiction of Caribbean nationals as fun loving beach combers, and partiers to be an attractive one, but I can tell you that many of us who live here do not see it so at all. As a matter of fact, just as western civilization, ‘modernity’ and globalization was imposed upon Africa, this touristy, wealthy, fun loving nightlife image was also imposed on the Caribbean. I am certain the original Amerindian inhabitants did not spend their days and nights partying as if they had nothing else to do, neither did the African slaves, nor the Indian and Chinese indentured laborers, nor the Syrian traders. Maybe the whites that came as slave owners had the leisure time but the rest of us certainly did not.  So you see how images get further skewed?  The heart of many Caribbean islands IS in their rural, folk traditions. It is one of the key elements, especially in Trinidad, from which much of our indigenous, still forming “Caribbean identity’ sprung as well as the breeding ground for retaining many older ancestral traditions. You may see the image of the Caribbean depicted as positive. But I do not share that view, No not at all.

Perhaps what might be a better question to ask is how do we get this paradigm to shift? How do we get people to see these very images that you find such an offensive view of Africa in their isolation as something of pride, not just in an ancestral history but as living breathing vibrant surviving cultures in spite of European encroachment? To me that is certainly a bigger success story than the building of mock European cities and the infiltration of cable T.V  

yan

 

There is a difference between whether the skewed perspective is correct and whether it exists.

there seems to be trouble separating between the two.

If something exist you deal with its existence you don't ignore it.

If prejudice exist you deal with the prejudice you do skim over it if what you want is to lift that prejudice.

My initial comment was not directed towards this site projection of certain images...but rather the broad projection of certain images by European institutions that perpetuate a certain way of life in Africa WHICH IS NOT THE REALITY FOR ALL.

Whatever we think is irrelevant...What the majority of our people think is what is of concern.

That most of what Black Americans and Euro born Africans think of when we say AFRICA. THIS IS A PROBLEM.

It is a problem because they DO OPERATE IN A EUROPEAN MINDSET, and because WE DO ATTACH VALUE TO MODERN AND WESTERN CHARACTERISTICS.

Africa was building Stone and multiple story houses on a large scale LONG BEFORE EUROPE.

The Idea that Certain characteristics are WESTERN and therefore should be detested is Worrying.

That some of us do not know of ourself enough to know that Africans had intricate plumbling facilities when Europeans where living in their own feces.

How can you attach characteristics to the west that where African first. Was it not from Africa that the greeks imported their pillars from to hold up the most magnificent of their buildings.

Did not Africa have a Iron long before most of the world....where we not the keepers of the greatest Schools and libraries and Ships and castles? Didn't Africa Out show the European fleets all the way up the sixteenth century BC. Wasn't it Africa that had the first Democracies, wasn't our political systems Envied by the West...did we have the greatest kingdoms this world has ever seen and some existing within the same period...are we not the people who after coming out of the Arab Slave trade, Fought and put off the colonization of Africa for FOUR HUNDRED YEARS????


The Dynamic of Africa and its people are extremely COMPLEX and MIGHTY. We have had existed people who have lived in what may appear at first glance to be simple conditions through out the epoch of our greatest empires...Africa is multi faceted, we are not a single face, so i can the hating please stop.

In order for us to reach and succeed our past glories we need to be on top of not only OUR GAME not only ours but the European Game. We need to know how to lift up our nations, yet at the same time stay true to our spiritual identity.

We need to know how to do things BETTER.

Western Civilization is not all bad...lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, it cannot be all bad since the core of what they Know was taught to them By Africa.

realizing that there exists an Africa that isn't Rural life is NO DISREPECT or Disloyal to the civilizations and the prototype of the civilizations that gave birth to African light.

Urban squaler is something distinctly European...so is complete disrespect for mother earth. I'm sure almost everyone on this site is aware of the ancient achievements af Africa...But the slums were in England...and now have been deported around the world....Slums and poverty are not good aspects of western culture, and like you said the masses are what is important. THAT IS WHY WE MUST ORGANIZE! If we are not organized we will not be able to educate each other. THE WESTERN MEDIA WILL NOT DO IT FOR US. They are benefitting off of the misery, disorganization, and ignorance of the masses of African people. Begging them to change the images they portray of us is futile.

It is nice to read a few whites thinking so well. Respect Iyah360.  

Bantu Kelani.

English, Spanish and French are the most spoken languages in the world due only to their colonialist cultural history. I have beef using them but I do so as a way to "infiltrate from within". I utilize them to educate and communicate with other Blacks, and when the brainwashing of the Black race will be removed, Black African Nations and Black people will ultimately revive the use of our African languages such as Swahili, Yoruba or Zulu. In the meantime I comply with these colonialists languages as an intersect commodity.

Also, I find it amazing with the valuable information that you have about your people, you still have this asinine sentiment of embarrassment and shame about roots native Blacks. You claim to understand the concepts of Afrocentric culture and history that do or do not extend to Caucasians, but it's apparent you do not even have a clue. You are too busy embracing denial and a will of sheer appreciation of the oppressors, which is not going to happen. Are you proud of our natives' traditional portrayals and communities? Or are you not? Make up your mind, for you are vacillating obsessed with the oppressors principles. Who cares what westernized/brainwashed people think? The Caucasians and Uncle Toms approbation only arise when we are aligned with their selfish agenda, that -YOU KNOW- does not represent the full aspiration of THE GREAT MAJORITY OF THE BLACKS POOR who are frequently destroyed by their oppressive schemes and regimes polished by a democratic technique of facade. Believe it, a comprehensive industrial and urban renaissance will never occur until the mind and thinking of the privileged and most successful Blacks, specially those living in the US and Europe, are free from the psychological control of White people.
It is pitiable you do not feel the need to give the struggle a radical orientation. You do not see that a Nationalistic focus (the very same way all people operate to impose and maintain their religious and cultural traditions) will be the tool for the urban, industrial, financial and scientific rebirth of Africa and the Black race worldwide. The need for Afro-centered socio-economic infrastructures against the White ones of the US and Europe will be efficient and effective to counteract the methods employed by these superpowers which are completely RACIST in character. Thereupon their standards, cultures, religions and judgments ought to be rejected! But the erudition, technology and history of the African Blacks ought to return to suit the modern age. As before the invasions when Africa was at her Zenith , deciding for self is but the noble path of self-knowledge and self-determination, which we ought to remake to reestablish our development. Never be proud to be loyal to the oppressors. Only be proud of how resilient a fair number of our people have overcome despite of economical and cultural genocide placed in their way. And that I will always be proud as MANY Black African sholars and warriors on this message board and in the world.


Bantu Kelani.

Recognize that i cannot be embarrassed of what i who i am.
Recognize that it is physically impossible that i am ashamed of my people.
Recognize that who i am is who my people are
and recognize that i CAN NEVER NEVER be Embarrassed of my People.

I am starting to wonder whether you are projecting your own insecurities unto me.

Because NEVER did i say i was embarrassed. You half assed attempt to read me is pitiful to say the least.

You don't know me, yet you wanna psychoanalyze me from a misunderstanding that i have repeatedly pointed out to you is not my judgment but the judge of our own people that i say is effected by the continuous presentation of Africa in a certain light.

I tell you this because i have been there as a youth, i tell you this because i was raised in the West, and i know how we are breed to think, i tell you THIS BECAUSE IT MATTERS what we see of Africa. And if you say it doesn't matter, you are lying to yourself.

I am not going to defend myself to you...I don't have to.
That you accuse me of embracing Western Society is extremely hurtful and hateful and would win anyone who told me that to my face a deck in their jaw.

You are limiting Africa with your Limited idea of What Africa is. You are limiting our people with your ideas of what an African is. The bottom line is that you are no more African than I am...and you do not love my people more than i do.


We are in a Western Mindset...like you must use Western Language to communicate...We are dealing in a Western Context there for we communicate in a Western Context to our people that are not dealing in an African Context...on order that we bring the gap...not only with our people outside of AFrica but with our people outside of Africa but still live in Africa.


It is a Translation process...Because our people are speaking Western psychologically mentally and socially. that is all that i am saying.

The needs to be a rebuilding of bonds, and bridges. We cannot step to the roof before we lay down a foundation.

And certain messages are sent to our brain when we see a images...we associate adjectives to pictures. There is an overwhelming inappreciativeness for Africa in general among our own people...why do you think that that is?

The continuous repetition of images effect how we see things and how we believe. AGAIN let me state that the negligence of American Society to present Africa (Apart form South Africa-but thats another story) as a large organized civilization is a PROBLEM...We deal withing a Western context here ONLY in a Western Context and when you say Tribe to the Average African American there is an Inferiority associated to the images drawn...when we say Civilization, or Civilized or City, or Town...the images associated to those words are positive.

This is dealing in a Western Context now, so stay with me....these paradigms do not exist outside of the twisted west...but we are dealing with our people within that paradigm. You who have elevated from that view...cannot dictate to someone else how to see things, you bring them to your level by propelling their own mental journey.

The truth is most of Africans here do not first see themselves as Africans, and they ain't journeying no where.

You can't Shout at people to get them to see what you see, you can't bang it in their heads, or call them names or accuse them of being stupid and loving white and hating themselves...even if it is true. Cause they will automatically shut down, and both of you become defensice.(i learnt that the hard way) You lift them in a round about manner.

Even Africans in Africa will look down on some of those pictures....AND THIS IS A FACT...so how can you get someone to appreciate what you see as beautiful, when one they ain't speaking in your language and Two both of you are operating within a limited space...one of you gotta be free flowing to be able to transport the other.

I'd like to read more about these people, what books are out there that talk about there culture and philosophy?

I agree that the continuous reptition of images about Africa affects how one thinks of our people but don't you think that the peoples ideas need to change rather then the depiction of some Africans. You had a problem with the pic of the little girl wrapped in Kente, I thought that was a cute pic of a Ghanaian/Krobo girl. It's a ceremony and the book is called African ceremony, if people are truly stupid enough to believe that all little girls in Ghana are dressed like that on a daily basis then they're ignorant. How else can we show a traditional African ceremony in a different environment?

The peoples ignorance needs altering then some of the pics. Theres no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of depictions of Africa that needs serious changing. I can agree that there probably needs to be an explanation of whats going on however that African Ceremony book gives detailed explanations of every picture.

When did i tell you that i had a problem with the picture of the Two twins.

I am starting to believe that Some of you are clouded by your own prejudices.

When did i say there was something wrong with that pic prince....? I don't know where you get these ideas from...i had a problem with them...i didn't even reply to the thread after you posted them....i don't appreciate being lied on, an i wonder at the specific reason for doing so.

You're seeing more into it then there really is. There is no specific reason for it besides a misunderstanding. Ok you didn't have a problem with the pic however you felt that the images were of rural Africa thus perpetuating predjudice of Africa.

The book is called African ceremonies, how else can we depict African ceremonies out of it's natural element? If people are ignorant enough to look at a book on ceremonies and believe that is the way all of Africa is that is there stupidity. They need much more changing then the book.

Excuse me But My Authentic Africa is not only in the Villages.
Ceremonies do not only take place in the villages. Lets get that straight.

So after you exxagerated and put extra words into my comment, do you feel better now???

And bringing other discussions from another board ain't kosher since it just confuse things. If i thought that Village Africa was ugly why the hell i post the picture then....?

Exactly...


I WAS EVEN TALING ABOUT THE BOOK SPECIFICALLY...and talking about the book in general.

Traditional African Cerimonies take place in Lome, in Lagos, in Abuja...Not All of Africa Where Ever ALL Villages...so lets check our facts Please.

It doesn't confuse things because you know what the heck I'm talking about to begin with, so don't act like it's a big deal BECAUSE IT ALL TIES IN.

I didn't put any words in your mouth that is what you want to believe sense you're in defense mode right about now. Continue with your paranoia that we're out to stomp you.

I got better things to do to make myself feel better like kicking rocks then putting words in your mouth.

Where did I say that you believe village life is ugly? I'll bet you won't find it. It's funny because now you're putting words in my mouth.

Actually you weren't talking about books in general you were talking about that specific book, but to save drama I'll just leave it at that.  If you want to argue about it we'll argue about it there.

The Ugly comment was in reference to Ms. Bantu Kelani...

The Book in general NOT Books in general...


Paraniod about WHO...Let me look back on my replies and check where i stated anyone was out to get me.... :-/ ::)

This being a good example on how the Human mind sees more than is presented and associate adjectives to pictures and vice versa

yada yada yada



This sounds like someone with issues  :-/

If you weren't addressing that ugly comment to me then fine just state who you're addressing your comments to next time.

then you said:




then you said:


Being disingenuous and forgetfully selective won't help you in your argumentation Kwegan. Your speech is driven by a self-castigating attitude. You tend to go overboard with defensiveness with really any substance. It's apparent to me you are not really concerned for Black people's autonomy and liberation.


You've done a wonderful job of exposing your own insecurities yourself.


This quote speaks to my very point about your attitude. But your conceit fails to permit you to see that what is obvious.

As for my alleged "narrow-mindness", all you have seen so far is the thoughts of someone with strong opinions. But then you are the same way, so if I can see only my own opinion, you suffer from the same "weakness".


Bantu Kelani.

I dont usually respond to vibes like this, but I just must ask all of whom is in conflict... what's the point? We're dealing with an online resource of upliftment through reasonment... why get personal about who has issues or make assumptions about how people feel on certain subjects, if we don't even know each other? I suggest the I's use time to manifest for the positive, there is enough war in the world, don't let it reside within you.
Only for the UPLIFTMENT of Gracious Mama Africa...
Blessed Love

sisMenenI,
I encourage anyone to offend anyone, however do you really expect to reach intellectual and spiritual growth without being tested in rational and reasonable dialogues? Many people have an aversion to people who can challenge their beliefs and opinions. Consequently, they are satisfied with a "virtual positivism" of Black African, even if everything in the world's construct abuse us, psychologically and physically. So what place does a "virtual contentment" have in the lives of Africans when others do not believe in the legitimacy of its reality and even some blacks themselves have difficulty psychologically accepting it. How alleged Rastas are supposed to free the mind of Black Africans without logically challenge their academic, religious and political beliefs controlled by the agenda of their own oppressors? I firmly believe challenging doesn't not mean offense, it simply means putting oneself and others to the test and grow intellectually or in wisdom.

Bantu Kelani.

Quote:The whole Slide "Show" is Terrible, absolutely Terrible...The whole Show resembled a freak show fest. I know thats a horrible thing to say, but its true. And you wonder why most African Americans want to be disassociated from Africa, i would too, if these where the things being shown to me as All Africa was.  


We are not Zoo Animals to have our pictures taken whenever White folks wanna make themselves feel better.


Quote:Because NEVER did i say i was embarrassed.  

The problem is not with the pictures, some of them are Gorgeous-in my eyes.  

And i never DID



Quote:A peoples greatness is measured (in the west) primarily by the advances they make in society, their buildings, their social intricacy and make up, their schools, their architecture, their roads, and the efficiency of the agriculture and so on.  

A peoples greatness throughout History and times is measured not only in the West but also in African History, through their Arts, their Architecture, and the PHYSICAL as well as Philosophical remains of their success passed on to their decedents...not only does history judge us by these characteristics, but also by our relationship with each other and foreigners.

Quote:I could give a rats ass what white America sees or what White America or Europe think about who we are.

White America is not the Same thing as Black America and Black Europe my dear.    




Being disingenuous and forgetfully selective won't help you in your argumentation Kwegan.

You are the one being selective, picking an choosing and quoting what you want, taking my statements out of context is not Brain Surgery.


Your speech is driven by a self-castigating attitude. You tend to go overboard with defensiveness with really any substance.

Without any Substance...?

While you on the other hand jam pack your posts with arrogance and self righteousness?


it's apparent to me you are not really concerned for Black people's autonomy and liberation.

As is apparent to me that you are handicapped by your own self importance and are unable to see past your own ego. As if the only way to react and the only way to have a correct perspective is if we all think as you do. Please...

The Liberation of Africans Globally is infested with people such as you who believe that their way to love and fight is the only way. It is a Hindrance to cut off people for no other reason than their view and fundamental approach when both of us are working towards the same end.  
 

As for my alleged "narrow-mindness", all you have seen so far is the thoughts of someone with strong opinions. But then you are the same way, so if I can see only my own opinion, you suffer from the same "weakness".  

As i have stated that i agree with most of what you say, with the exception of a few key points. I understand where you are coming from...but as i also stated, not all people are able to think nor do they see as you do.

Check "Pygmy Kitabu" by Hallet, Jean-Pierre. Some of his conclusions are indeed racist, but between the lines are some very good insights and correlations. The correaltion between the ideas of the Mbuti(Pygmies) at the source of the nile with the ideas of KMT, following through into diverse and widespread world peoples.

Check "Egypt, Light of the World" by Gerald Massey to see the path of the ideas from inner Africa into the civilization of KMT and later Judaism and Christianity.

I'm curious about something...

We all know that the images of Africans in the West are controlled by the West's political, social, economic, and cultural interests...So we can complain about them all day, but how do we plan to get control over anything without organization of the African masses?

Since this seems to be the only viable solution(organization), are we all joining existing organizations or creating our own to achieve this goal?

By the way, the book African ceremonies(which I own) was written and produced by 2 European women...just a thought.

http://www.africanceremonies.com/ceremonies/artists.html

I hope the link you provided won't further upset the too many African people around the world who are just poodles of the white man desperate to please their masters even more. For my part, I appreciate them. I personally believe any photograph, message, book, movie and television program that can truthfully account our original structures, principles and artistic heritage in this world and show how it relates to Black traditional norms of high culture is positive in content and has a positive intent as it awaken acute consciousness about the African thought and determination as opposed to western style of reasoning and will prevent in the long run discrimination and bigotry against Black people. Even if a few white philanthropists of good will lack the depth of the Black experience I see them trying to advance the respect and preservation of Black people in many ways and that's worthy.

I agree with you Oshun_Auset. I think one need to find out specifically a collective with a political, religious and social common interest that's going to lifts us to the highest dignity and uniqueness for Black people. Every Black have to learn to nurture the African identity on his or her own regardless of the context of his or her environment as well. The bitterness of our poverty however have triggered in the Black people disunity, disorganization and psychological confusion. Africa and Black people have numerous mind problems. This is precisely what Carter G. Woodson called "The Mis-Education of the Negro".  But the time has come to take measures to solve our problems and the most powerful medium that we have for empowerment is CULTURE. When all Black people around the world and in Africa can stand an be proud of their rural communities, traditions and religions and respect each other at all times then harmony amongst our people and in the whole of Africa will help us and create a chain where other races would also RESPECT us. In my perspective again our primary concern shouldn't stay on synthetic and superficial factors how White people typically measure "prosperity" with money and property, and the accumulation of destructive infrastructures. Whereas to really solve our problem we have to rebuild our nations with our own ancestral inventions making them suitable for modernity. Economic, political and metropolitan control and development can never be complete and effective without mental control and development. No Black person in this world should beg the patronage of another race to define his or her own civilization.


Bantu Kelani.