Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

If the basic beliefs are the same, then isn't rastafari simply a new name for christianity?

Such was my response at one time, but then I found out there are many significant differences; and, moreover, that there are many "types" of belief systems within Rastafari just as within mainstream Christianity.  

Consider the following for starters:
RASTA,
1) Some accept or promote the divinity of H.I.M. Haile Selassie I, others do not
2) Some embrace the writings of the Bible as the word of JAH, others do not (2 Peter 3:16)
3) Similarly, some embrace the writings of the Holy Piby, and again others do not
4) Rastafari teaches to find the divinity and manifestation of JAH within oneself.  Christianity generally teaches to look outwards, despite being made in the likeness and image of JAH (Genesis 1:26)

Then, in Christianity,
1) Some feel the use of ganga is a form of spiritism, others do not object (Revelation 22:15, "farmakia," Greek, meaning spiritism & druggery)
2) Some deify Yeshua as an incarnation of JAH.  Others recognize him as the foremost prophet of JAH and only-begotten son (John 3:16, Galatians 6:2)

You have here five simple, but significant, variations within Christianity & Rastafari.  There are certainly many more minor points that I could add, but these are what one might consider foundation points between the two.  Just taking these few beliefs you can see there is a wide spectrum of beliefs within both religions.  

There are also many points which harmonize within Rastafari & Christianity, too.

1) The fall of Babylon.  Rastafarians believe, rightfully so, that the world empire driven by greed & abusive dominance will fall and be replaced by the divine order of the most high JAH.  TRUE CHRISTIANS recognize this as well and are not a part of the quagmire of false Christianity that thrives within Christendoms' churches which are no part of the true movement of JAH people.
(Daniel 2:44, Revelation 21:3,4, 2 Peter 3:13)

2) The literal necessity for one to live righteously & lovingly as Yeshua taught (Psalm 37:29)
---

Those are just some basic points for starters that cause a rift, for lack of a better word, between mainstream adherents to Christendom's versions of Christianity and RastafarI.  

The power of JAH dwelling in Man is what makes this reasoning have no direct answer because each person holds their own perspective, no 2 people think exactly alike, although many have parallel ways of seeing things and sighting the Most High. Out_of_Zion made some real legitiment points.  
I sight something very different in Rastafari than Christianity.. one very obvious difference is the emphasis of JAH dwelling in Man rather than pointing to a next human that will save you if you follow him. For example, many Rastafari call themselves by Ethiopian titles, like Ras, meaning Head. I have never met a christian that calls themselves by the name of Jesus. But there are plenty that hold an affinity for Jesus as somewhat of an Idolatry rather than the christ principles being the emphasis of their religion. One elder once showed me a pie graph-like chart of the earth cycle starting with the old testament and Judaism. The second section came when Yahushua the Christ was born and that was the time of the New Testament and Christianity. The third section was then the book of Revelation, HIM was born and the earthcycle is now Rastafari, and we are living in the times of Revelation. There are very distinct differences in each section as far as how people lived, by what morals, who were the leaders and what went on in history.
But, as I stated before, it's real difficult to label what Rastafari is because Rastafari is something different as there is no dogma, rules, rits and rites,  and what makes one a Rasta other than personal perspective. HIM Sellassie I was christian, Yahushua was Jewish. Am I a christian? Well, since Selassie I dwells within me, yes I try to trod in the light of Christ. For I, HIM Haile Selassie I is RASTAFARI .. I know what Rastafari IS .. to me and I don't need to take a life to provide for my life so I don't eat flesh, I let my hair grow as that is what it naturally does, combing only prevents the locks that naturally form, and I see that Itiopiya is the Motherland of civilization, HIM was born there and has fulfilled the scripture that so many are awaiting for fulfillment... I see the serious times we are dealt right now and cannot deny the revelation is reality in this time, so I must work to do my part in the healing for the sufferers.. most of all LOVE is the answer and JAH is love and love comes from the heart. Selah

I would first like to thank you for your responses. There were some wonderful points well taken.
After listening to the responses thus far it appears that there are more similarities than differences between rastafari and christianity.Forgive my ignorance, but after religion was forceably fed to us it seems as if we embraced it, then adapted it. Almost as if we took their saints and gave them some new names. Perhaps I just need more indepth examples of differences from the ones that you all provided;or, maybe i need a history lesson. I welcome your responses.

one love

bless

I feel you on this preach, I have voiced similar complaints about accepting our slave master's/colonizers "religion" ...But...when Judaism and Christianity are thoroughly examined...it is then realized they are just fragments of traditional African spiritual concepts that developed in the Nile Valley civilizations...If you look at Rastafari from this context it is as an extension of those teachings, then there is less to object to. I just don't like it when I see my brothers and sisters get trapped in the Helio Biblio(Holy Bible), that book has been perverted by those that oppress us, and we need to stretch our minds back to our ancestors beliefs and stop letting colonization and slavery define and limit us. Some of us Africans in the West came from Eastern African but the majority of us came from the West...From Dahomey, Ashanti, Fon, Yoruba, Igbo, Wolof, Congo, and Angolan stock(and others). We must ask ourselves what their beliefs and practices were, for if we were not enslaved...and those still at home were not colonized...we would be practicing these traditions. Are they not then what we should be emphasizing?

I agree with Auset and preach. IMHO, we must return to our ORIGINAL traditional heritage to really gain consciousness of who we really are because recovering our original African religion deepen the sense of our own being. By doing so the energy of our illustrious Ancestors really rushes into us! There is no intention of harmony with the rhythms of the universe in the Judaic, Christian and Mohammedan religions, whereas the traditional African religions recognize the Cosmic, Nature and Ancestral Sprits and prove us their reality and how they are watching over all of us. Sticking to the major tenets and practices of religions that denigrate, ridicule, slander and destroy our Ancestral beliefs really bothers me and is detrimental to Africans the world over.

Bantu Kelani.

This may not be my place to say something,  but I am wondering how ones return to something when one is so far removed from the environment from which it sprang. Would it not just be a second rate version of the original filled with our current understanding and perspective of things?

No, because the origional people and practices still exists. The traditional spiritual systems were not wiped out....They are still practiced in Africa, all the peoples I mentioned are still on the planet in a similar environment,  practicing the spiritual systems right now. It survived in the West with the enslaved Africans in the forms of practice like Voudun, Santaria, Shango, Cambole, Lukumi, ect.  The initiates of the West travel to Yorubaland and Dahoneayland(Nigeria, Sierre Leone, Benin, Senegal, Togo) to  recieve the origional rites....We are still here. We survived, and so did our traditions.

Speaking of original African religion.

In the Bible there is talk of an anti-christ. If there is an anti-christ I think its inside our own head, trying to destroy us. And a jah force fighting for the truth. If I want to take that message back to the original African religions is there talk of an anti-christ in the self? Because for me this is a real part of human nature. That there is a battle going on between an anti-christ force and a jah force inside the mind.

Kebo I

You may want to study the story of Seth/Set and Osiris/Ausar, you will see that this KMTic papyri is the origin of many a biblical story, including that of Cane and Able, Christ and the anti-Christ, ect. Osiris/Ausar is the "christ" figure in ancient KMT. The "Christ" figure in Ifa practice is Shango.  There is no "devil" in Ifa because this spirituality is based on the unity in opposites. The Europeans mistook Eshu/Llegba as the devil orisha when they colonized Yorubaland. There must be a balance, male female, possitive negative, life death. It is a lack of balance that causes chaos and destruction in the individual and society.....right now the world is out of balance, IMHO this can largely be attributed to lack of respect for the femanine principle, largely fostered by the version of Christianity practiced today that is patriarchal and not balanced. The femanine principle has been removed from the "origional KMTic holy trinity...Isis/Auset, Horus/Heru, and Osiris/Ausar...Mother Father and child. Auset has been replaced by the Holy ghost. If there is a God there must be a Goddes, as above so below...this is a fundamental teaching from our ancestors that is largely being ignored.

If everything has a balance then positive must be balanced by negative. This would justify Haile Sellassie in not being expected to be the perfect man and take at least some of the heat off of his shoulders.

Thanks for the reference to the ancient Kemetic story, I'll have to look that up sometime. If you look at the anti-christ as a 'negative' force then it becomes a non-intentional force, a force thats not intentionally out to destroy. If it is destroying then there is just a lack of positive force. Like the news on TV, the negative stories outnumber the positive stories creating a negative view of whats happening. Which probably then gets perpetutated.

Kebo

Greetings!

The question of whether “rastafari=Christianity” always recurs. I agree with the views offered by most -- if not by all -- people here (on this subject) up the thread, and I agree that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are no more than modern versions (excuse my language!) of Kemetic-Egyptian religion, crafted from Kemetic natural religion and, therefore, old chips off the practices of Ancient Egyptian mystics, as someone has observed … [I think everyone should know that!]. These three religions sprang from Ancient Egyptian -- (or Kemetic) -- civilization!!!

Not all Rastafarians agree on things *Rasta*, and the one good thing about Rastafari is that there is really no established “authority” (as such) to dictate any belief doctrines to anyone, though we can say the doctrines are there! … [I don’t know whether that should be viewed as negative or positive, but I’d like to consider it positive, since we JAH people have too many problems up our neck already, to divide (or make distinctions among) ourselves through differences in interpreting what lies at the core of the state we call Rastafarianism] …

“The Truth lies within you; your journey is simply to find it!”

And anyway, lest we forget: Let’s always NOT forget the essence of language and culture (and their evolution/impact) in whatever dealings we have in the present times, and let’s remember that healthy societies existed in Afrika and elsewhere before the advent of writing and the setting up of missions by whites in Afrika! By the way, writing comes from Afrika (lest we forget!), but English does not!! English is the medium we use to communicate with one another; we speak it to sieve with it through the dirt of history, and then use it to seek out the truth, our hidden Truth as we perceive it, being a people massively relocated and disconnected throughout history, both physically and intellectually/spiritually.

We lost our roots!!!

To understand the fabric of (Ancient) African society, its dynamics and how it was totally destroyed over time, Diasporan Afrikans wishing to take a peek at unspoilt Afrikan society and thinking are advised to read Chinua Achebe’s books such as (in that chronological order): Things Fall Apart, No longer At Ease, A Man Of The People, Arrow Of God, Chike And The River, How The Leopard Got Its Claws, Girls At War, Morning Yet On Creation Day, Anthills Of The Savannah and The Trouble With Nigeria. This is just on the creative literature level, but would be a VERY good starting point, to begin with.

Consider the following excerpt from Achebe’s No Longer At Ease, a novel about Obi Okonkwo, Ogbuefi Okonkwo’s grandson living in the modern-day Nigeria of the present-past (the book is set in the late 1950s) ... [The book is really a continuation of Things Fall Apart. Obierika, a wise elder in the village of Umuofia and who refused to convert to Christianity, speaks thus of Obi Okonkwo (to people who were there at the material time)]:

“… He is the grandson of Ogbuefi Okonkwo, who faced the white man single-handed and died in the fight. Stand up! …” -- he tells Obi –- “… I tell you, this is Okonkwo. “As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be: world without end”; that is what your religion teaches us …”

Isn’t that *beautiful*??? ...

It should be mentioned here that Professor Achebe informs us in this book that the people of Umuofia sent Obi to study (Law) abroad, in England, so that he could take up their land cases/grievances to contest them in a court of (the white man’s) law, upon completion of his studies: in the poli-tricks of modern-day, europeanized Nigeria, set just before independence in 1960. In England, however, Obi chooses to study English, instead of Law, thus going against the wishes of the very people who had blessed him with the chance and sacrifice to study overseas …

Any echoes there, of today’s situation? Any reasons for why Obi’s bourgeois lifestyle ruins him through his careless mistakes, within a short time of his returning to Nigeria, working as a civil servant? It must also be mentioned that Obi is clearly “lost between two worlds” upon his return to Nigeria, and one even gets the feeling that he is gradually separating himself from his “village people”, and realises too late that it is only they who could have helped him …

I’m sorry that I took such a poor example from the realm of creative literature, but I think we all already know the essence and power of literature in society. Creative social literature encompasses the memory of a society and, therefore, should mirror the hopes, fears, dreams and realities of a given community or people.

Anyhow, I also have this reference:

I think Ras Tyehimba eloquently expresses common (and very acceptable!!!) views on Rastafari in his Rastafari: A Return to the Roots. (http://www.rastaspeaks.com/tyehimba/2004/rastafari.html) I think it is a beautiful and well-balanced, well-written and unchallengeable article! Please check it out (if you haven’t yet!).

ONE LOVE + One Aim  [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] ...

PatriotWarrior.

“He who brings Kola, brings life”: An Igbo parable found on many pages of Chinua Achebe’s books.

Food For Thought: http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!F3!DD!27F71B870BDF/BARNUBIANEMPIRE/BLACKPEOPLEBLACK/index.html

I was asking my question because I am thinking that cultural practices change when removed from the indigenous environment from which they sprang and are practiced traditionally.

From what I have read, the practices of the diasporic Africans which they retained from their homeland assimilated the cultural symbols, idols, etc. of the slave masters who brought them out of Africa (i.e. Catholic imagery, etc.) and thus the spiritual practices adapted to the new environment and incorporated that which was around, such as in Haitian Voudou. The fundamental system of knowledge and spirituality may be retained, but the appearence in some aspects changed.

I am thinking in a way that Rastafarians adapted the Christian imagery of the slave masters, but perhaps deeper at the root their is some of the indigenous spiritual practice still at work.

This is why I was asking if one can really return to the ORIGINAL practice of the ancestors w/out adapting to the new environment. A Rasta in the bush in The Carribean incorporated a fundamental respect for nature and all of creation and works WITH IT. . .  EVEN if they color their overstanding of things with biblical imagery. This I would argue is very different than Christianity and perhaps closer to indigenous practices of the homeland than some would think.

I understand what you mean. They call it syncretism, but the fact is there are still people in the "bush"/rural or village areas in Africa practicing the traditional spiritual practices (like Ifa and Voudun). They have not taken on the catholic saint/Orisha blending of the people in the diaspora. That is why I choose that form rather than the diaspora version. Many people forget that the origional culture still exists. They think it was completely lost via the slave trade or colonization, and that's not true.  Plus, just like Rasta took on the Christian  iconography but remained true to nature, the diaspora traditions  did much the same thing...but I still prefer the origional without the Catholic/slave master's overtones and influence

And the more one overstands what Christianity is and where the root ideas of it came from, it is a cycle BACK to the nile valley civilizations. In this way Rastafari(in asmuch as certain ones who follow the livity accept Christian doctrine) makes a loop back to the origins.

I have seen pictures of Ras Tafari as a youth and he has what was known as the "Horus Lock" which is pretty much a lock of hair which is allowed to grow unhindered while the rest of the head is shaved until a certain age. This practice is from ANCIENT times and can be traced back to KMT. The more one looks into it, the more that is revealed.

Rastas remained true to Nature? You must be kidding. Give me the name of the Earth Goddess they worship? What are the Cosmic Spirits or Nature Forces they honor? What about the ancestors spirits worship? It's typical for Rastafarians to reject reverence to Nature Divinities to the point of betrayal  the true indigenous belief and practice of the first human beings (God-men) of this planet. Of course, everyone should practice the religion they please, but if Blacks with African ancestry seek to gain African knowledge that stretches back to our remote ancestry. Then, they should revere the faith (IMHO perfect) of our ancestors' source.  

Bantu Kelani.

I didn't mean in spiritual reverence of nature, but in lifestyle, they live naturally. You know we agree that the spiritual practices of the ancestors are primary and should be continued, and that the feminine aspect is neglected....But Rastas live without harming nature/ the environment...Although I understand that spirituality and lifestyle are inseperable, and therfore neglecting the goddess and the ancestors is NOT ok...I hope that clears up what I meant...

Most RASTAS I have known from the Carribean have a respect for nature, deal with gathering herbs for healing ailments, deal with animals as equals(speak with them too), revere the natural elements and are profound in their philosophical arguments.



Maybe they don't deal necessarily with names and labels for the elements, nature spirits, etc . ..  but how is this proof of a lack of reverence and regard? I understand your disagreement about the male orientation of Rastafari because I know that this is present.

RastafarI are NATURAL people, going back to the roots of creation... the Earth Goddess, the Cosmic spirit is ONE and that is JAH. You may sight that as "betrayal" to true indigenous beliefs, who feels it knows it. It's a natural mystic, RastafarI is not Christianity, although it is often labeled in anthropological terms as a "revitalization movement" out of forced Christianity but a serious teaching from the roots is THE ONLY CONSTANT IS CHANGE. So things like religion can be reasoned on forever but to truly have a say about Rastafari one has to truly experience the essence by feeling it. Rastafari know who the "Holy Ghost" is... Rastafari must nutrure the divine feminine as the Essenes of the Ancient of Days...  If you really check the words of HIM Haile Selassie in whom RASTAFARI got its name, you can sight a much deeper truth than the colonizer's Christianity:
"The temple of the most high begins with the human body, which houses our life, essence of our existence. Africans are in bondage today because they approach spirituality through Religion provided by foreign invaders and conquerors. We must stop confusing religion and spirituality. Religion is a set of rules, regulations and rituals created by humans which were supposed to help people grow spiritually.

Due to human imperfection religion has become corrupt, political, divisive and a tool for power struggle. Spirituality is not theology or ideology. It is simply a way of life, pure and original as was given by the Most High. Spirituality is a network linking us to the Most High, the universe and each other. As the essence of our existence it embodies our culture, true identity, nationhood and destiny. A people without a nation they can really call their own is a people without a soul. Africa is our nation and is in spiritual and physical bondage because her leaders are turning to outside forces for solutions to African problems when everything Africa needs is within her. When African righteous people come together, the world will come together. This is our divine destiny."
Christianity's roots are in East Africa.  KMT is where the roots are.. but now with that said, ones must look at the teachings rather than the philosophical aspects because the intention of religion in general is to lead people to a higher overstanding of life and live righteously with love. JAH is Love.

Regardless of what you say SisMenenI there is nothing indigenous in Rastafari, Kimbanguism, NOI and the likes. If there is no worship of the female principal, then there is no original expression of our traditional African (world) religion period. If you knew anything about traditional Africa you would know spirituality is intrinsic with religion in traditional African viewpoint. Go see with your own eyes how tribal and Earth Goddess honoring people live and breath a more powerful religion. In traditional societies there is amalgamation of informal spirituality and institutionzed religious activity. The Earth Goddess is revered and honored through many rituals and ceremonies as well as the Cosmic Spirits and the Ancestors by shaman priests and priestesses as well as by states Chiefs. The supernatural spirits are all of the essence of the Supreme Spirit indeed but a rejection of the sacred ritualistic reverences to every one of of them is unnatural and unhealthy. It's destructive because when we don't integrate into our lives a systematic relationship with every one of them, we loose balance and allow our moral principle to be venerable to selfishness and damages form the dangers of this world. You don't even deny Rastafari is fundamentally masculine, thus is fundamentally an unbalanced movement, the situation is however different with the ancestral African tradition. Our original tradition is in honor of each and every one of the supernatural spirits: the Supreme Being, the Earth Goddess, the Cosmic Spirits and the Ancestral Spirits.

The Creator Source comes in all these manifestations indeed. They all give us health and prosperity. Therefore again, a lifestyle or spirituality that neglects the veneration of all these principles lacks the complete reverence of the Supreme Creator itself. Their invocation and worship is obligatory for they are all sacred and represent cosmic interrelatedness and harmony. A rejection of reverence of each and every one of them lead the consciousness to imbalance, moral degradation that resulted to the modern power-ego-competition cul de sac era instigated by the Judaic tradition 3000 years ago. When we keep rituals involvement with ALL the supernatural Forces, we keep more a sense of BALANCE that also sustain these Spirits benevolance. If you want to argue this point, be my guest.

Bantu Kelani.

I see your point BK. The bible does neglect the feminine aspect almost entirely. One has to be a good student of mythology to see the presence of the feminine principal in many of the stories(which are themselves remnents of Babylonian, Egyptian, Chaldean, etc. traditions)

I wonder sometimes about the homophobia of Christianity as being more of a reflection of their promoting homosexuality for almost 2000 years in a doctrine which excludes and/or downplays the feminine principle.

I think that the imbalance caused by the lack of reverance for the feminine principle manifests itself in the physical realm via homosexuality(as well as many other things). If there are all men in heaven, there shall be all men on earth....as above, so below...Our ancestors knew what they were doing by reflecting nature in spirituality and vis a vis. If there is a God there must be a Goddess. Duality is primary for balance.

The homophobia in Christianity is a result of the subconscious mind knowing that suppressing the feminine power will result in imbalance, but the ego won't allow one to admit it on a conscious level.

OHM.it shouldnt be so hard for ones to see a Balance of opposites in everything,for it is a Law of life itself.since ones call themselves Rasta,dont ones know that the earth is a living female?for she is the one who nurtures us physically and ANYONE who wants to come in the physical realm MUST ask her for the skin.i think the problem is that ones who have incorporated this Incient way of Rasta with mainstream religion that professes that god is a man,LoL,yes the Omnipotent one is a man but he wouldnt be anything without the woman.OHHHMM

Shri Krishna Maharaj

It's all about perspective:

In the beginning JAH created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of JAH moved upon the face of the waters...

In these first words in Genesis of the Bible is the WOMB of creation. Darkness.. water... the spirit of JAH dwelled there. Hail the divine feminine in all manifestations of life as there is always balance and each man came from a WOMBMAN... science can prove that... and if you truly check the name ELOHEIM it is both male and female. So Rastafari in this time must come forward to nurture the divine feminine mother of creation to restore the balance. .. it's all about perspective. RastafarI is NATURAL people

I keep hearing talk about the feminine principle. But if you look around alot of males are broken down, their masculinity is breaking down and many men have already become feminized.
I say there is a greater call for men to realize their manhood. Respect for women is part of this process but a man's first objective should be to build up his masculinity.

Its a mistake to mislead men to get in touch with their feminine side before their masculine side. When men/rastas/kings are secure in their manhood and hard like rock then men should concern themselves with understanding the feminine principle. This is along the lines of Dr. Cress Welsing's insight that the supremacy system's biggest threat is the Black male. And its first goal is the breakdown of the race's manhood, to break down family structures and weaken the race altogether which depends on the strength of the man.

Kebo

Since you brought it up...The Isis Papers should also be complimented by the book "Afrikan Mother
Principle of Male and Female Equality" - By Oba T'shaka.  Dr. Cress Welsing hit it on the nose about symbolic language, and also why the female role in Western thought must be downplayed because of the concept of "origional sin"... the act that made one come into life is a sin pecause of lack of melanin(this is her theory for the western spirituality downgrading the feminine).....But we are talking about African spirituality that does not look at the creation of life from an 'origional sin' perspective...and therefore has no problem with revearing the feminine...Oba T'Shaka states  the femanization of men comes FROM the lack of the feminine concept in Western spirituality of which we have adopted in mass(anyone who uses the Bible as a main reference point is doing this whether it is intentional or not...It isn't "OUR" version of things).

..My refference to homosexuality being prevalent in the West is a perfect example of this....The fact that Christianity all but leaves out the woman, and has the highest amount of homosexuality of any religion, outside of the Greko-Roman erra...should be a big clue of how not having a balanced example spiritually(the father, the Son, and the Holy spirit)....Which is the Hellenized/Greek version of the origional KMTic Holy Trinity(Father, Mother,and Child)...and we all know what the Greeks did for initiation into manhood! What kind of symbolic message is that sending to Africans and humanity in general if we are supposed to live "as above, so below"?

We aren't saying some left wing liberal "get into your feminine side" thing....The FAMILY structure in heaven guides the FAMILY structure on earth...If it is all male...isn't homosexuality therefore just an acting out of the symbols men are fed all their life? (There's that symbolic language the Isis papers always refers to) A God should have a Goddess, to reproduce a God... A man should have a women, to reproduce a child. Not a "father"/older man, and a "son"/younger man, with an invisible spirit(although I realize Mary is the downplayed Isis in this story, she still was removed from the Trinity because of the "origional sin" concept).

In closing, being a "man" isn't being with a "man" which is the symbolism one recieves from Christianity and Western culture in general. You shouldn't confuse African traditional spiritualitie's reverence for the feminine as an attempt to "femenize" men...It actually works in the opposite direction, and our ancestors are proof of that. I don't recall us having the social problem of the femenization of men when we were practicing our own indigenous spiritual systems...Do you? So how could returning to our roots create such a problem? Dr Welsing analyzed European/Western thought and spirituality...not Afrcian traditional thought and spirituality...They deserve there own seperate evaluations...The same rules do not apply to an "out of balance" theology(Christianity) as to one that has balance(African traditional practices)...and the social results quite obviously support that.

Kebo,
Be aware your chauvinism outlook is what led the outrage and destruction of the old Earth-honoring civilizations and current environmental degradation. It is manifest you are ignorant of the depth of the traditional African thought. The original African worldview sees human LIFE directly with the Supreme Spirit through women! Women are the Goddesses of FERTILITY having the power of life as the Earth Goddess herself from which everything originated on this planet. Thus, women are the center of our lives! Tell me frankly, would you would rather focus on authoritarianism, power, ego and competition patriarchy than on the feminine concepts of balance, harmony and humanism?? Remember how from the depth of antiquity the matriarchal cultures created the values of JUSTICE and PARTNERSHIP, while patriarchy societies created those of dominance, sex inequality, warfare, consumerist and exploitation. Honoring the divine feminine principle is healthy and wise because only the veneration of the divine feminine principle along with the sacred masculine, principles will rebalance our world today that continues to diminish our interrelatedness and true spiritual powers.

Oshun_Auset, very enlightening posts, thanks.

Iyah360, you always feel me, PEACE.

Bantu Kelani.

"Lioness, when she be strong the whole INIverse rest, when she be storm she literalize the tempest, she's a lioness yes yes . . . "

- Midnite "Lioness"

.Thanks to all who responded to my initial post and thanks to all who helped it progress to other ideas that all correlate. Everything points back to the original. The last responses pointed back to the original. The original being woman, which is not only a title, but an ideal, a perfected system and the only means by which to experience freedom. Everything is borne of something children, ideas, etc. The entity that gave birth is feminine and is worthy of being praised, reflected upon, and embraced. My question now is why is it that women must take the back role in so called progressive religion?  Isn't this destructive behaviour?

Any religion, or any other social institution where women must take a back role is the antithesis of "progressive" and therfore is automatically destructive because of it's inherent regressive nature/design....

out of Blackness and the womb of the mother is from all are born and which all return to when passing. this is a scary and POWERFUL realization, and I think some in history have tried to repress/humiliate and downgrade in psychological rebellion against the inevitable.

BantuKelani:
  I don't know how to do the little boxes with quotes, but I'm replying to your message where you said Rastafari is not true to nature and betrays original African traditions.
  I would agree with what Iyah360 said in relation to that. At least in the Caribbean, it has been Rastas who have spearheaded respect for nature and our fellow beings (animals and plants). Rastas were vegetarians when this was virtually unheard of in industrialized countries (and they were looked at as being very 'weird' in our own countries for such practices). Rastas throughout the caribbean have been known for their long sojourns in the hills, amongst the natural elements, living in harmony with and paying respect to those elements. Rastas preserved the folk knowledge of the healing powers of herbs, etc. (not only the one herb) passed down from Africa (and also transmitted from the Amerindians in some cases). True, most Rastas had a very patriarchal concept in the beginning, but then they came from a very patriarchal society. Unlike other groupings which remain stagnant in one position, Rastafari has evolved and grown, and now I would say that there are a GREAT MANY Rastafari (can't say percentages) who acknowledge the female principle of divinity alongside the male. That's certainly the attitude of the majority of Guyanese Rastas who I know personally (not saying that means they represent the majority of Guyanese Rastas as a whole).
Also in Trini I know there are Rastas who are also Shango/Spiritual Baptist, and find no contradiction with the two.
I think you may be taking your personal experiences with some Rastas, and generalizing from there to Rastafari in general. Rastafari is nowhere near a homogenous group, in fact it must be one of the least homogenous of any "religion"/spiritual group/belief-knowledge system or whatever you want to call it. There really are VERY few things that ALL Rastas agree on, making it all but impossible to make generalizations about Rastafari.

Gman, the perspective of few Guyanese Rastafarians is irrelevant. The fact is the Rastafarian movement is something patriarchal to a great number of various Rastafarian groups and camps WORLDWIDE and thus essentially does not embrace the creed, code and cult of ancestral African tradition..I know Rastafari has never been a homogenous movement. I am not saying all Blacks should not embrace Rastafari. I simply value African traditional religion more than I value Black Judeo-Christian cultures; just my preference. When Rastafarians claim they practice the philosophy, beliefs or faith of our indigenous people while the great majority still describe the movement from a masculine perspective, it is my duty to strike back and give the original African point of view, less sexist in its spirituality.

It is a free world, it is your right and those like you to embrace the Rastafari culture if you want, after all it is also Black produced. Likewise it is my right to defend original African religion, emphasize its value and notable lack of sexual discrimination compared to others Black cultures..Few Rastafarians honor feminine and Nature archetypes of our indigenous people. They are fine with me. It is the intolerant Rastafarians that seems to want to monopolize the African spiritual thought in Judeo-Christian themes and texts that bother me. So, my job on this Earth is to stop them to free our people of latent western bondage.


Bantu Kelani.

Well, is nah irrelevant to WE... is we culture. That is how I learned/grew in Rastafari, not as no patriarchal male-dominated thing, in fact many of the teachings I've got were from me auntie and from an elder sistren who plenty of males look up to. That is what Rastafari IS for me, Alpha/Omega, male/female balance. As far as my circle, it was never ONLY the Bible we reason about, Kemetic teachings were discussed as well (one or two people pretty much leff the Bible alone and concentrated pon that). Is not many Rastas in GT I've been in contact with who dismissed African ancestral practices... even when some might condemn obeah for eg. as practised in Guyana (because they say it's used for wickedness) they would acknowledge that originally in Africa it was used for good. I know plenty Rastas who say they would love to learn more about traditional African "religions", whether Yoruba, Congo, etc... they may not have been initiated in such but that is cos of lack of opportunity not lack of wanting to do so. Personally I feel I may be initiated in such when the Iniverse brings me to the right place at the right time (might be here in Brazil). I would see no contradiction at all between that and identifying as Rastafari. (Except I would not sacrifice animals). As for Judeo-Christian, those roots are there yes but many of we also reach beyond them for deeper roots. Now you might hear one of me bredren when he prays saying "in Jesus name" interchangably with "Rastafari" (his mum prayed in Jesus name and that is who he learn to pray from)... but when you ask him who is this "Jesus" he woulda say "me brudda", not his lord and master or nothing, just his brother who achieved enlightment as we all can do.
There are also Amerindian Rastas and they carry over many of their original traditions, as do Amerindian "Christians".
Now with that said, yes of course there are also plenty of patriarchal, Bible-bashing fundamentalist Rastas in Guyana, but I would not say they are the vast majority. And to judge from my interactions not just in GT but in England, America and now Brazil, I say there are also plenty of Rastas worldwide who acknowledge the femine principle and are open to learning about the traditions of their immediate ancestors, and they are not the vast minority.
BUT your point is taken. Anti-woman, anti-African sentiments should be countered at every step. respect.