Africa Speaks Reasoning Forum

I prefer using the term NEGROID than African as Negroid signify the dark-skinned black with wooly hair. I want to stress we are talking about people with a certain kind of African features that feel the brunt of discrimination and I am not using Negro in the derogatory sense..

-----------

The foundational concepts of Hebrew, Judaism, Christianity and Islam were copied from our original sacred texts, the BOOK OF COMING FORTH BY DAY (also known as the Book of the Dead)! For illustration, concepts such as the 10 commandments were nearly copied verbatim of the 42 negative confessions of MA'AT. Later other concepts such the Trinity, the Immaculate Conception were also cut and pasted from our ORIGINAL Holy Scriptures that existed half a millennium before any of their books so-called 'original'. Also, Moses (who is very likely to have never existed in the first place) was a caricature of AKHENATON, the founder of the Hebrew cult. The Hebrews learned Monotheism in Kemet and incorporated it into their imperialistic religion of imposters. They invented nothing, that much of our History is contained in their plagiaries books needs no telling!

Before the MAAFA (THE NEGROID AFRICAN ENSLAVEMENT PROCESS), Colonization and Imperialism, us Negroid Africans were practicing our own indigenous spiritual systems as is taught in divinity schools, biblical texts as allegories. We were the only one group of humans on this planet who actually lived and practiced rituals and beliefs depicted in the Bible, but have never read the Books.

JAH was KATONDA in Uganda, MUSIKI in Zimbabwe, NZAMBI MPUNGU in Angola, MWIN in Burkina Faso, AUSAR-AUSET, DJEHUTY, PTAH-MA'AT in Kemet (so called Egypt), RANGE in Kenya, OLUDUMARE-OLORUN-Ifa for the the Yoruba, KLE with the Bambara and the list goes on ad infinitum .... We had rituals, ceremonies, holy days, which gave reverence to the CREATOR-the Indescribable as well as to our Ancestors and those yet to be born. We were a holistic people when the barbaric, brutish, non-spiritual, thieves whatever you wish to name them, European Caucasoids came... They destroyed our Natural way of life and continue to do what the hateful Arabs had done and continue to do. They gave us alien Gods, enslaved our African minds that made us docile and passive, laughed at us further separating us from the True-CREATOR that is Perfection in our Image venerated in our own way!

Our people have then been trained to react to EMOTIONAL themes, forced to internalize alleged History of mythical chosen people...But it is time to rise above unoriginal theologies and research our True History, which is far beyond the Hebrew-Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions. Male chauvinistic Murder imperialistic cults have proven to be tools for our pacification. The framework of these beliefs prevents our Negroid African minds complete development and reconnection with the dynamism of the Universe.

WE MUST RETURN TO OUR ORIGINAL WAYS OF VENERATION IF THE POWERS OF THE UNIVERSE ARE EVER TO BE IN OUR FAVOR AGAIN!!!

Bantu-Kelani.

Yes Queen so true. In order to now the tree ones must first know the root.

Africa is the Blackman/woman Foundation-Hugh Mundell

The Egyptian Book of the Dead is the Hieroglyphic transcript and English translation of the ancient sacred texts written by the ABANTU people who called themselves KEMETCU (black humans). The translated versions are therefore books by black folks, meant for the physical and MENTAL betterment of  Negroid Africans. Identity is lacking among our people, it should NOT. We cannot be restricted to limited epochs, we are the sum of all the forms we've been over the ages. Discounting some epochs makes the identity invalid. This book serves the upliftment purpose WELL in our day and opens up doors to many Truths about us Negroid Africans, the relation we share with others in the family of humans' identity and our purpose and goal in the dynamism of the Universe.

The text blow is taken from the Original Negative Confession in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

Bantu-Kelani


-------------------

Hail, Usekh-nemmt, who comest forth from Anu, I have not committed sin.
 
Hail, Hept-khet, who comest forth from Kher-aha, I have not committed robbery with violence.
 
Hail, Fenti, who comest forth from Khemenu, I have not stolen.
 
Hail, Am-khaibit, who comest forth from Qernet, I have not slain men and women.
 
Hail, Neha-her, who comest forth from Rasta, I have not stolen grain.
 
Hail, Ruruti, who comest forth from heaven, I have not purloined offerings.  

Hail, Arfi-em-khet, who comest forth from Suat, I have not stolen the property of God.
 
Hail, Neba, who comest and goest, I have not uttered lies.
 
Hail, Set-qesu, who comest forth from Hensu, I have not carried away food.  

Hail, Utu-nesert, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have not uttered curses.
 
Hail, Qerrti, who comest forth from Amentet, I have not committed adultery, I have not lain with men.  

Hail, Her-f-ha-f, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have made none to weep.  

Hail, Basti, who comest forth from Bast, I have not eaten the heart.
 
Hail, Ta-retiu, who comest forth from the night, I have not attacked any man.
 
Hail, Unem-snef, who comest forth from the execution chamber, I am not a man of deceit.
 
Hail, Unem-besek, who comest forth from Mabit, I have not stolen cultivated land.
 
Hail, Neb-Maat, who comest forth from Maati, I have not been an eavesdropper.
 
Hail, Tenemiu, who comest forth from Bast, I have not slandered [no man].
 
Hail, Sertiu, who comest forth from Anu, I have not been angry without just cause.  

Hail, Tutu, who comest forth from Ati (the Busirite Nome), I have not debauched the wife of any man.
 
Hail, Uamenti, who comest forth from the Khebt chamber, I have not debauched the wife of [any] man.  

Hail, Maa-antuf, who comest forth from Per-Menu, I have not polluted myself.
 
Hail, Her-uru, who comest forth from Nehatu, I have terrorized none.  

Hail, Khemiu, who comest forth from Kaui, I have not transgressed [the law].
 
Hail, Shet-kheru, who comest forth from Urit, I have not been wroth.  

Hail, Nekhenu, who comest forth from Heqat, I have not shut my ears to the words of truth.
 
Hail, Kenemti, who comest forth from Kenmet, I have not blasphemed.  

Hail, An-hetep-f, who comest forth from Sau, I am not a man of violence.  

Hail, Sera-kheru, who comest forth from Unaset, I have not been a stirrer up of strife.
 
Hail, Neb-heru, who comest forth from Netchfet, I have not acted with undue haste.
 
Hail, Sekhriu, who comest forth from Uten, I have not pried into matters.
 
Hail, Neb-abui, who comest forth from Sauti, I have not multiplied my words in speaking.
 
Hail, Nefer-Tem, who comest forth from Het-ka-Ptah, I have wronged none, I have done no evil.
 
Hail, Tem-Sepu, who comest forth from Tetu, I have not worked witchcraft against the king.  

Hail, Ari-em-ab-f, who comest forth from Tebu, I have never stopped [the flow of] water.
 
Hail, Ahi, who comest forth from Nu, I have never raised my voice.
 
Hail, Uatch-rekhit, who comest forth from Sau, I have not cursed God.
 
Hail, Neheb-ka, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have not acted with arrogance.  

Hail, Neheb-nefert, who comest forth from thy cavern, I have not stolen the bread of the gods.
 
Hail, Tcheser-tep, who comest forth from the shrine, I have not carried away the khenfu cakes from the Spirits of the dead.  

Hail, An-af, who comest forth from Maati, I have not snatched away the bread of the child, nor treated with contempt the god of my city.
 
Hail, Hetch-abhu, who comest forth from Ta-she (the Fayyum), I have not slain the cattle belonging to the god.  

Awakening Osiris: The Egyptian Book of the Dead (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0933999747/theorderofthesel/002-2893247-6019249) by Normandi Ellis

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0933999747.01.MZZZZZZZ.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0933999747/theorderofthesel/002-2893247-6019249)

This Book of the Dead, that is refferd to as the Original Sacred Text of NEGROID, people-which I am a part of, is NOT representative, of this NEGROID/African, For Ras Ifree part, IanI GlORY IN THE BIBLE. The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible. IanI agree that Uropeans exploited Christianity-however, it does not shake IanI faith.

Christianity became the state religion of Ethiopia in the fourth century A.D. So, with all due respect-you can have the Book of the Dead. I will deal with the BOOK OF LIFE, IanI HOLY IBLE, IanI Rock and Foundation. Bless HIS HOLY NAME Jah Rastafari Haile Selassie, God In Flesh

I'm looking at the ROOT of the Hebrew-Judaic-Christian religions!  How can you talk about the Ethiopian orthodox faith, the bible or any, without looking at their ORIGIN?? When you want to find a disease tree in the forest, you have to cut the tree down and look at the root right? So the ROOT of the Hebrew-Judaic-Christian religion is the ancient mystical creed of the ABANTU people who called themselves KEMETCU (Black humans) of Alkebulan- Africa!

Form the invaders of ancient Egypt that I like to call it by its real name KEMET (land of the blacks)  525 BCE from the Greeks, Persians, Roman north African Invasions, to Arab Invasions, to the religious invasions that came to conquer, from this as and Negroid-African I can attack Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the holocaust it had on Negroid Africans!! It's time to bring home to the Diasporian blacks as much as native Africans themselves how these religions (including the Hebrew religion whose Semitic people stole the land that belonged to Canaanites who were Negroid-Africans and created a myth of a fire & brimstone God..) have made us a whole docile people.  

The pyramids have been dated over 12,000 BCE. We know the BOOK OF THE COMING FORTH BY DAY (THE BOOK OF THE DEAD) is over 6,000 years old! We know the pyramid texts are the oldest in the world in Moral teaching that is used in the Ethiopian Orthodox bible or other. The word "amen" is from "Amoun-Ra". We know the cross is not from Jesus but the "Ank" the symbol of eternal life before the so-called Jesus came into the world. I say so-called because he never existed and was a fabrication of the Roman Catholic Church when the Romans stopped killing Christians and became Christians themselves. Yet modern Negroid Africans are still credulous!  I'm no bible scholar but it doesn't take a genius to notice all the bible errors. And it already have been proved as fallible human document with many inaccuracies, failures of logic, biases and mixed motives a set of lies by petty witnesses and superstitious, ignorant drinking buddies at the first conference called the Conference Council of Bishops at Nicea 325 AD.

The PROBLEM with modern Negroid Africans is that we are still looking outside of ourselves to find GOD that does not represent us spiritually! And black Hebrews, black Christians or  Muslims are on the defensive when this brought to their attention. These religions came by conquers and racism was used to further their aims! These religions use excuses to convert us the world over. Our ancestors had perfect spirituality before the conquers. I can honestly say our forefathers and mothers wouldn't have chosen these Male Chauvinist Murder cults if it wasn't because of invasions and slavery. This is the issue Dr. John Henrik Clarke posed as he cried when  we as a people are going to come with the grips that most of us have a God not of our chosen, and we have taken on the traits of the oppressor and their Gods..

Hebrew Israelite also, is not much more than a mere speck on the broad tapestry that is Alkebu-lan History. From Kemet to Songhay, from CONGO Empire to ZULU, there is so much more than the bible as myths. And even if they were not so, why uphold lies?

Bantu-Kelani.

I think that it is possible for people to 'Glory in the Bible', though I admit it takes some work. I have gloried in the Bible myself. But after reading a translation of The Book of Coming Forth By Day, which is without a doubt the most beautiful and profound religious text I have ever read, I am grateful to see that the source of  the Biblical tradition lies in a series of texts that emphasize HUMAN CONDUCT as the way to BECOME the 'god-man'. This is not different than what Jesus taight, especially in his Gospels that never made it into the Bible.

It is true that the historical evidence for the existence of Jesus is thin, but his 'brother' James did certainly exist, and as a gnostic, what he brought forth as the 'teachings of Jesus' is the closest the Bible gets to the heart of those Kemet teachings. This is not to say that I disagree with what you are saying, Kelani, but I do think it is possible for sincere people to discern between the parts of the Bible that are political propoganda and the parts that express the ANCIENT TRUTH. I can also understand why many AFRICANS rightly feel 'why bother'?

As for Judeo-Christian religion and institutions I can only say that nobody with a history of a thousand million murdered has a thing to say to the world today. It is the job for people who consider themselves Christian or Jew to seek into the heart of their traditions and embrace the teachings which SUSTAIN true life and true morality. If they are sincere, this search will take them to Kemet.

Rootsie

The bible will only take us to DOCILE land, make us accept our plight as shaped by others!

The bible is filled with irreconcilable contradictions and errors! To pay any honor to the almighty Creator with this corrupt book is a sin. Anyone who believes that the slave Masters who came from culture that is chauvinist Murder dominated since the cave dwelling days, can copy the accounts of other without biases and inaccuracies has issues.

Should Rastas and Black Africans use a book that enslave people of color the world over and used whites people as  their savors? I say Hell no! I prefer a book that was made by Black Africans for Black Africans!

Bantu-Kelani.

So if looking to the Bible is a sin for any human
then how does one reconcile Haile Sellassie's promotion of the Bible, and of Christianity

When its Haile Sellassie who appears to be the monolith who's power of the trinity is sending Africans/humans back to their origin

And isn't Jesus the "man" ifestation of the third world, the symbol of all oppressed people, humble and poor and downpressed. Its in Jesus humbleness and poverty that I think why the poor of underdeveloped countries relate to Jesus and look to the Bible for comfort and salvation

The real message being in Jah Resurrection

I dig what is being said about going back to the origin, to the indigneous religion/texts/philosophies

I'm just wondering how the Bible etc can be totally bogus if HIM Haile Sellassie, the father of Modern Africa, derived so much strength from it and was so vocal about the Bible, and so was Bob, and wasn't Marcus Garvey as well?

Kebo i

Kebo,

What kin Adam & Eve over 8,000 yrs ago in the caves of Europe have with negroid men and women in Africa over 3 million  years ago??!

Black people were more SPIRITUAL without doctrine from the Conquers books'! OUR Ancestors in Alkebulan had more tolerance then the modern Black Africans  indoctrinated with Poison form Hebrew, christian or Islamic teachings.

The bible is pure nonesense.

B.K

Kebo said: "HIM Haile Sellassie, the father of Modern Africa"

This is the view of some Rastafarians, however that is not the view of all Rastas and especially serious historians. What is modern African and when did this modern Africa begin?

Kelani said: "The bible is pure nonsense."  

I can easily understand how one can say this.

However, there is much in the Christian Bible that belongs to Africa's history from Eithopia to Egypt and more. I am also of the view that it can be totally dismissed and one can develop correctly especially as the information can be found in many African cultures, which can give a more holistic appreciation of human development. Finding answers within the spectrum of our diverse and oldest humanity give people a better appreciation of our commonalities and differences.
 
There is nothing written in the Christian book that cannot be discovered elsewhere. If one is versed or studying world history and is following a process for development then they don't need that book. If ones wish they could extrapolate from it just the same as they would do from many other books.

I don't want to take this reasoning off track, of discussing Enslavement of Negroid Minds

I'm learning that its always best to think with you own mind, and not just do what Haile Sellassie do, for example

I can't question or fight your drive to take it back to the origin

Would it be alright, Kelani, if you shared where Haile Sellassie stands in your mind?

At all costs, its got to be the best way, to do away with all alien influences from the original ways of thinking

Kebo

Okay, Let’s try to start this thing at the beginning at break it down slowly.  But before we do that that, let me go ahead and preempt some of your arguments and dismiss them as nonessential.

I am not a historical scholar nor do I need to be to understand who I am.  I have reverence for the history I know and continuously seek to learn more.  So, if I do not tie my arguments to a succinct history that does not make the following statements false.

What is Christianity?  You attack it, but admit you are not a Bible scholar.  Do you really understand the Christian philosophy, or do you just hate the perverted versions of it that you've HEARD?  

Bantu, every thing that you find important: loving people, respect, kindness, and reflection... It is all summed up in this commandment:  Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self.  A true Christian, one who understands our faith, strives everyday to achieve this love.  What are the implications of this love:  It implies that you will not enslave another, you will not exhort yourself over another, you will love your family, and you will respect those around you.  You will sacrifice yourself for the benefit of others.

What contradictions exist in the Bible?  Bantu_Kelani, can you point them out?  Or can you merely tell me what you've heard the Bible says.

What Christian looks for a faith on the outside?  Christianity is found WITHIN the soul.  If any man is IN Christ Jesus he is a new creature (N.testiment).  We are to abide IN Jesus, and HE IN US.

Now maybe you THINK my Jesus and Heavenly Father are not a representation of who I am.  First of all, NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN THE FATHER.  And yet MANKIND was made in his image. Not just black people, but mankind. So if we are ALL God's children then either He is a rainbow of colors or we were made in his spirtitual image and maybe his physical image.  (And yes, I do believe that God is a HE, but not in a physical sense, and yet a masculine one.  Consider other languages where things are either masculine or feminine).  

So in your religion, if your god only represents us as black people, are the rest of the races damned?  And oh my goodness, what happens to people of cross-cultural races.  If religion is indigenous to race, then multi-racial people are screwed.  These are merely observations and questions.

So much, you want us to believe in the philosophies of a black religion, but spirituality is colorless. Color is a physical attribute and carnal in nature.  I answer to a power much higher than any carnal weight.  I love being black. I brag about being a thoroughbred.  I am black by heritage, choice, and heart.  But I'm also red because I am covered with the blood of Jesus.  And HE WILL COVER ANYONE WHO IS WILLING TO PUT HIM ON.  

As for the scriptures being stolen.... Try Genesis.  In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and God was with the word.  If it existed always, then it could not be stolen.  Others may have written books before the Bible.  BUT the oral passing on of knowledge existed centuries before texts were written.  Yes men did write the Bible but they did not develop the truths of the Bible.  They wrote only what God inspired them  to write (Inspired meaning...as told).

As to the Book of the Dead…  Did not a man write it?  Is it not then subjected to the same claims that you bring against Christianity?  When you put the two books side by side, which teaches about a Universal Love, shows a difference between right and wrong, and offers salvation?  The Bible is the Book of the Living.  Oh definitively...Moses existed, as did every other man and women in the Book.

Now let me go ahead and preempt another argument that you might make:  You might ask me how do I know God is real.  He's real because I feel him in my soul.  He gave me a sense of right and wrong.  When I pray to Him, He answers my prayers.  He left me a comforter, the Holy Spirit.  He promised to never leave me nor forsake me.  In my 23 years of life He's kept that promise.  I've been up and down, left and right and through it all, He's been right there.  No other god has done that.  I know this because I haven't asked them for anything.  I speak to ONE God and HE answers me.  He gives me air, water, sun, moon and stars daily.  He gave me love and his Son.  HE brought me into a spirit of adoption, by which I can cry out: Abba Father (Acts:NT).  He woke me up this morning and laid me down last night.  When the world let's me down, HE lifts me up.  There is no other god who can do that.  I believe this. I know this. And you can quote as many historical principles as you want...But a physical answer can NEVER combat a SPIRTITUAL.  A million lessons in history will never save MY SOUL.  No One can ever take the God in me out!!!  He's done too much, gave too much.  I could spend my entire life trying to explain what HE's done.  

When it comes to God you must separate the carnal from the spiritual.  Forget European ideology or Black ideology for that matter.  Walk in the spirit and then discuss HIM.  The carnal mind will misrepresent the body of Christ every time.  For this reason we must war against our Flesh daily.  We must worship in Spirit and TRUTH.  THERE ARE NO MULTIPLE TRUTHS EITHER SOMETHING IS OR IT ISN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bottom line is this:  You don't understand REAL CHRISTIANITY.  You've heard a lot of things and frankly, I wouldn't believe either if I had seen or heard the things you have.  But no, Bantu...Jesus is not the blond hair blue eyed man.  He's not described that way in the Bible.  Christians are not taught to be slaves, but to be free.  What do you think the great Exodus was about?  We are taught to love each other as ourselves.  No one wants to harm him or herself.  As a parallel, Christianity teaches us not to harm others.  IF everyone treated people the way they wanted to be treated: there would be no war, murder, disease, nothing... I just wish you could see what I see.  All I see in Christianity is love. Because that is what it is: Love

My prayers are with you.  You are so intelligent.  It’s obvious in your posts.  But don't be wise to the world and a fool to God.  He loves you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From one Beautiful Black Queen to another,
SealedbyFaith

Thanks for the lead on Kelani's views Ayinde.

Also, I'm catching on to what you and Kelani are pointing to, which looks like the source of our humanity, going way back past the Bible, not only thousands of years ago, but maybe millions. In that kind of timeframe there has got to be a whole lot of wisdom discerned about human nature and natural law.

Human nature is what the search is all about as far as I'm concerned, the basics, the blueprint, the original way. And any undoctored message from Jah would probably be pointing towards there as well, back to Our original humanity.

"The father of modern Africa" was a term I heard on a Sellassie documentary entitled the Lion of Judah. It does seem that around the time Sellassie showed up on the planet, is when movement started picking up for Africa. Didn't he spearhead the liberation of African nations from colonialism as well as the establishment of the OAU?

I'll admit my mind is entering a quizzical mode at the moment as to Who Sellassie is, and His relationship to the Creator, and the future of humanity. Of course its always best to keep thinking with your own mind.

Kebo

The Torah/Bible was written between 600 and 400 BC. After the Babylonian captivity.
The Adam and Eve story, just for starters, comes from far older Mesopotamian sources.
'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God', is an idea called the Logos in Greek, but its source is in the Egyptian Book of Coming Forth By Day., the idea that as things are named they come into existence-I believe it was the Egyptian god Thoth who commanded the creative power of the Word.
The story of the 'dying god' existed all over the place before Jesus. The Osiris story is probably the oldest example.
There is much that can be read about the Ancient sources of th Bible.
Some of it can be found on these websites. Race and History.com lists many books.
The great African American scholar John G. Jackson gives a good accounting of these things...

The events surrounding the Romans' murder of James and the destruction of the Temple are clearly given a political slant favoring the Roman version of Christianity in the Bible. For all that Paul ended up getting killed by the Romans does not change the fact that he was a Roman citizen all his life. There is a good book that details how the Book of Acts was rewritten to condemn the more original Christian teachings of James and the Essenes called James the Brother of Jesus by Robert Eisenman.
Then there's the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Nag Hamadi library which gives a flavor of what Christian thinking was about before the Romans-much closer to original Egyptian ideas.

I, unlike Kelani, do not think it is impossible for a sincere person to be a Christian. But I think it is important for all to acknowledge the African roots of all spiritual traditions. It is really at this point in history I think a matter of justice. And if there is anything all can agree that God in the Bible stands for, it is justice.

Rootsie

Posted by: Sealedbyfaith
---I am not a historical scholar nor do I need to be to understand who I am.  I have reverence for the history I know and continuously seek to learn more.  So, if I do not tie my arguments to a succinct history that does not make the following statements false.


Faith is no substitute for FACTS! Archeological and historian materials available at present do raise VERY DISTURBING questions about the validity of the of Judeo-Christian theologies. We as nation of Africans have lost our knowledge of self ONLY because the REAL biblical Truth has been changed, abused to suit Imperialist aspiration of various Imposters. White men know that, but black folks are still in denial.

--- What is Christianity? You attack it, but admit you are not a Bible scholar.  Do you really understand the Christian philosophy, or do you just hate the perverted versions of it that you've HEARD?  

It does not take a theologically astute to know that Christianity is the one religion who brought the Atlantic Slave Trade into existence! Because if I recall pope Martin V gave Christian Europe the blessing to enslave Negroid Africans in 1502 and King James II sent many ships with African slaves to Europe and the New Word. King James came out with your modern day bible and he was a true Christian eh! So let ME ask you WHAT is Christianity? As a Negroid AFRIKAN WHO KNOWS HISTORY, I AM HAPPY TO DECLARE YOU DON'T NEED CHRISTIANITY TO KNOW WHOM GOD IS!!

--Bantu, every thing that you find important: loving people, respect, kindness, and reflection... It is all summed up in this commandment:  Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self.  A true Christian, one who understands our faith, strives everyday to achieve this love.  

The European Christians do not practice Christianity, as it should be practiced in their everyday life just as much as modern day Negroid Africans do not practice as it was ORIGINALLY practiced. Christianity is a European political instrument!

----What contradictions exist in the Bible?  Bantu_Kelani, can you point them out?  Or can you merely tell me what you've heard the Bible says.

Don't tempt me! I could post HUNDREDS of biblical contradictions and errors. In fact I would like to do it sooooo bad that I'm salivating at the mouth  [smiley=grin.gif]...I will post just a few here. If the bible was the inspired word of God, it should have NO errors or contradictions. It should be a book that NO human mind could produce. But as we ALL know Romans so-called inspired authors have given the bible to us. Why would H.E allow H.I.S Word to be corrupted by incompetent men? And where the H.E comes from?? Could this MALE personification of GOD come from the European male dominated culture since their cave dwelling days?

*Contradiction number 1:

In Matthew 27:5, Judas threw down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed and he went and hanged himself.

But in the Acts of the Apostles 1:18, Judas kept the silver and purchased a field with it; he went into it and falling headlong, he burst open and all his bowels gushed out.

That is a contradiction! He cannot have both left the money in the temple and purchased a field with it. He cannot have both hanged himself and threw himself face down into a field and exploded. One account MUST be false. Which one should you believe? Why should you be placed in this position of having to choose between scriptures as to which one is true and which one is false? Also, who purchased the field? Judas or the priests? Both of these stories cannot be true at the same time.

*Contradiction number 2: Has anyone seen God?

John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time."
Exodus 33:20 - "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."
I John 4:12 - "No man hath seen God at any time."
VS.
Genesis 32:30 - "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Exodus 33:11 - "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Isaiah 6:1 - "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Job 42:5 - "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Has anyone seen HIM and lived? Or not? It says both. Both statements can't be true.

*Error number 1:
Isaiah, in 30:26, thinks that someday "the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun". This was written in the days when people thought the moon gave off it's own light. It does not. There is no "light of the moon".

*Error number 2:
Matthew 4:8 states that there is a high mountain from which all the kingdoms of the world can be seen. There is no such thing. (Note: this implies a flat earth!)

*Error number 3:
According to the bible, Ahaziah was 2 years older than his father Jehoram. What follows is an unbroken narrative from the Revised Standard Version, starting with 2nd Chronicles 21:20:

"He (Jehoram) was thirty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem; and he departed with no one's regret. They buried him in the city of David, but not in the tombs of the kings. (That makes Jehoram 40 when he died.)
And the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ahazi'ah his youngest son king in his stead; for the band of men that came with the Arabs to the camp had slain all the older sons. So Ahazi'ah the son of Jeho'ram king of Judah reigned.
Ahazi'ah was forty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem."

And you say this junk is the Word of God? More like drunken white men writing lies about some fire & brimstone God from the culture they come from! And since most of it come from desert people who stole it from other cultures we can see how Negroid people and people in general can be enslaved or confused by such nonsense.....

----So in your religion, if your god only represents us as black people, are the rest of the races damned?  And oh my goodness, what happens to people of cross-cultural races.  If religion is indigenous to race, then multi-racial people are screwed.  These are merely observations and questions.

The bible excluded the Mayans, Inca, Eskimos, Australians, Indus, Japanese and Chinese. They are never mentioned and how come they don't have a prophet in the bible. Seems to me like the God of your bible is the one bigoted.  

---As to the Book of the Dead  Did not a man write it?  Is it not then subjected to the same claims that you bring against Christianity?

The BOOK of the Coming forth by Day is hierolyglypics inscribed at the Temple of Luxor date more than 10,000 years ago! The modern translated versions were Texts put together by ENGLISH MEN. Those Texts are a few collection of the more accurate wisdom of Ancient Negroid Africans. Our Ancestors didn't need any doctrine or books form the oppressors to be the MOST advanced and SPIRITUAL people on the planet!

--Oh definitively...Moses existed, as did every other man and women in the Book.

With all the litanies of disillusion, contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and absence of corroborating evidence you are still advocating the veracity of the bible? OK, what if I tell you that in fact archaeologists dig in the Sinai and have found no trace of the tribes of Israel, not one shard of pottery! Their excavations also showed that Jericho was unwilled and uninhabited, which clearly seem to contradict the episodes portrayed in the bible. There is almost total absence of archaeological evidence backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon. Knowing these facts are you still going to claim Moses existed?

--- The bottom line is this:  You don't understand REAL CHRISTIANITY.

You ask me if I understand the King James Version of the Holy Bible and Christianity?  Answer NO! I believe in the ORIGINAL scriptures produced by Negroid Africans for Negroid Africans more than 12,000 years in Alkebu-lan. Before the Greeks, our Civilization was much MORE SPIRITUAL and had much MORE INTEGRITY.

----You've heard a lot of things and frankly, I wouldn't believe either if I had seen or heard the things you have.

Don't take my word for it. Go do your own research THAT IS MY POINT and come back tell me what you find! All this I found form the Nile Valley Contribution to Civilization by Antony Browder, African Origins of the Major Western Religions by Yosef ben-Jochannan, Countee cullen's poetry esp. 'Black Jesus', Challenge of the Barons by Lekan Are, The Egyptian book of the Dead, Dr. John Henrik Clarke, Anta Diop, Heroditus, Homer, mass media, Hollywood and my immediate cultural and religious oppression!

------My prayers are with you.  You are so intelligent.  It's obvious in your posts.  But don't be wise to the world and a fool to God.  He loves you!!!!!!!!!

When you PRAY just remember every Negroid African slaves the Church captured, raped and lynched in the 'GOOD SHIP JESUS' in 1619.  Amen!


Bantu-Kelani.

ONE, WHO DOESN'T TREAT YOU RIGHT, IS ONE WHO WON'T TEACH YOU RIGHT!!

ONE WHO SEEK TRUTH READ THESE TYPES OF BOOKS:  http://www.amonhotep.com/books/

B.K

Alright then,

I see we have some Biblical Quotes and questions, which is always good.  You cannot learn with out an initial question.  I’ll admit, I do not have all of the answers.  I firmly believe that “we understand it better by and by”.  Knowing this, I may choose to postpone answer until I can consult with my Brothers and Sisters and Christ.  After all of that we will have something for you.  So don’t go crazy if you don’t see a response to something you’ve said.  I don’t want to misrepresent my faith with false information or assumptions.

Now with that said I am going to do a little trick I learned as a competitive debater.  I am going to sign post.  Basically I’m going to analyze your response point by point.  Make some assertions and then go back to some original arguments.  The format is as follows: (off-case/ analysis)  + (on-case analysis) +cross examination.  This just makes everything easier to follow.

HERE WE GO ITS LONG BUT READ IT ALL OR YOU’LL MISS SOME THINGS

Bantu_Kelani wrote
Faith is no substitute for FACTS!

Response:  First of all, that statement is subjective.  It depends on where a person places the importance of facts versus faith.  But there is something you should know about your facts.  These FACTS ARE FOUND BY PEOPLE AND CAN BE MANIPULATED BY HUMAN ERROR, COMMON TRENDS OF STUDY, AND HOST OF OTHER INFLUENCE.  Take early geo-centric theory for example.  Common trends of study allowed the Geo-centric Theory to exist as Geo-centric Law.  It was a fact everything rotated around the earth.  We were the center of the universe.  Wrong, in 1530 Copernicus wrote De Revolutionibus executing that line of thinking.  But wait, is it a fact that Copernicus authored this thought.  New studies are showing that he may not have been the first to think this way.  If this is the case then new studies destroy the present fact that Copernicus is the father of astrology.  But I guess I should put all my trust in physical facts.  Nah, I’ll pass!   This is just one example.   We could go on, but why waist bandwidth.  So since there is no question of the level of subjectivity in your first statement.  I know that I can clearly assert the relevancy of faith in my life over facts.  You see, faith gets me through the fact that things happen.  Faith is my foundation.  As such, nothing is more important than the foundation.  

Bantu_Kelani wrote:
It does not take a theologically astute to know that Christianity is the one religion who brought the Atlantic Slave Trade into existence…

Response:  I understand your response, but you did not answer the original question.  From your post we can all tell you have issues with Europeans.  But I’ll address your statement.  But only by starting with the original question: What is Christianity? You attack it, but admit you are not a Bible scholar.  Do you really understand the Christian philosophy, or do you just hate the perverted versions of it that you've HEARD?

The aforementioned was your response.  Where’s the answer to the question.  What part of that answer tells me that you know anything about Christianity or its philosophy?  So I’ll assume you don’t know.  We’ll work on that one step at a time!  And you’re right it doesn’t take theologically astute to know that Christianity is the one religion that brought the Atlantic Slave Trade into existence… IT TAKES THEOLOGICAL ASTUTE TO KNOW THAT CHRISTIANITY DIDN’T!  By contrast we can accept that people who claimed to be Christians did.  BIG DIFFERENCE.  I can CLAIM TO BE THE QUEEN of a small country called Tigisteria.   Unfortunately my king has not yet rested a crown upon my head.  However, since you will accept a claim as fact.  My country is a great vacation resort.  Feel free to vacation with us.  On a serious note, not everyone who claims to be a Christian is:  beware of the false motives of others; beware of foes who pretend to be brothers.  By the way the Atlantic Slave trade was not the only one in existence.  Further, the fact that we are using slavery to devalue you essence of faith is ridiculous.  We both know slavery existed.   Yet, even in its time, white people and black people fought it.  They were abolitionist.  Many fought it based on Christian principles.  You know, that well-defined law: Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself.  They recognized it was wrong to enslave a human being.  Thus they chose to do their Christian duty and rise against injustice.  Finally, I don’t know the god that you know.  But I know my God through the Christian faith!


Bantu_Kelani wrote:
The European Christians do not practice Christianity, as it should be practiced in their everyday life just as much as modern day Negroid Africans do not practice as it was ORIGINALLY practiced. Christianity is a European political instrument!

Response:  Again I think you are stepping away from my assertion.  Maybe you don’t want to take the issues head on.  Maybe you want to hold on to the notions that you have about Christianity.  It can be hard letting go sometimes, I know.  But this was the original statement: Bantu, every thing that you find important: loving people, respect, kindness, and reflection... It is all summed up in this commandment:  Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self.  A true Christian, one who understands our faith, strives everyday to achieve this love.  

So since all you can say is that people don’t practice it, I’m going to have to reject the argument because it isn’t one.  First of all, I find it hard to believe that you have taken the time to watch the lives of the majority of all Christians.  Majority means at least 51%.  You haven’t! We are spread out all over the world.  It’s hard to follow what’s going on in one’s own life.  How can you have time to analyze the life of at least 51% of the Christians in the world?  But guess what, I did something sneaky.  I threw that number in just to give a visual image of your inability to accomplish that task.  The keyword in this graph is Christian.  Not pretend Christian, not weekend Christian, not Sunday morning Christian, but Christian. As such, that means that you would have to monitor all of us, the full 100% those of us who are truly Christians: the ones who strive everyday to Thou shall love thy neighbor as thy self.  Yeah, we mess up.  Sometimes we jack up the whole commandment. But we serve a merciful God.  We repent, and He casts our sins into the sea of forgetfulness.  We press on.  But we acknowledge our wrong so that we are not a stumbling block for others.  We know the world is watching us.  We have to be on point.  What you haven’t done is proved that love is not the theme of Christianity.  You’ve shown me a lot of people who have betrayed the faith, but you haven’t shown me the flaw in theme of loving thy neighbor as thy self.  SO POINT BLANK:  WHAT IS WRONG WITH LOVING YOUR NEIGBOR AS YOURSELF?  TELL ME WHY I SHOULD STOP LOVING MANKIND!  TELL ME WHY I SHOULD STOP TREATING PEOPLE WITH RESPECT!

Bantu_kelani wrote:
Don't tempt me! I could post HUNDREDS of biblical contradictions and errors In Matthew 27:5, Judas threw down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed and he went and hanged himself.  
But in the Acts of the Apostles 1:18, Judas kept the silver and purchased a field with it; he went into it and falling headlong, he burst open and all his bowels gushed out.
… That is a contradiction! He cannot have both left the money in the temple and purchased a field with it. He cannot have both hanged himself and threw himself face down into a field and exploded

Response:  I don’t want to tempt you, I want to enlighten you.  Let’s deal with Judas first.  Judas’ money was used to purchase a field.  This is stated in Mattew 27: 5-9.  The chief priests bought the land to bury strangers in.  Then we jump over to Acts 1:18.  You have to back up and start at verse 16.  It ties in the entire prophecy with regards to Judas.  Verse 18 ties into the prophecies found in the Old Testament and Matthew 27:5.  It’s saying that his sin is what allowed that field to be brought not that he bought it.  Further, falling headlong is the method of Judas’ hanging.  It is a sign of betrayal.  He hung himself upside down and cut his stomach to ensure death.  He did not just fall face forward and blow up!


Bantu_Kelani wrote: Contradiction number 2: Has anyone seen God?

John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time."  
Exodus 33:20 - "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."  
I John 4:12 - "No man hath seen God at any time."  
VS.  
Genesis 32:30 - "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."  
Exodus 33:11 - "And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."  
Isaiah 6:1 - "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."  
Job 42:5 - "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."  
Has anyone seen HIM and lived? Or not? It says both. Both statements can't be true.  
Response:  Again with scriptures you can just jump in the middle and take off.  It’s just like a novel.  You have to read the complete story to know and understand what’s going on.

In all of the scriptures that you named there was a transfiguration that took place before the viewing.  Hence, no man has ever seen God.  
1.      In Genesis 32:30 Jacob wrestles with the image of a man (or masculine angel).  Not true image of God.
2.      In Exodus 33:11 they are speaking to a pillar of cloud that had descended
3.      Isaiah 6:1:  Isaiah was prophet.  He was always having visions.  If start in chapter 1 of Isaiah read through chapter 6 you can tell that 6:1 speaks of a vision
4.      Job 42:5.  Back up to Job chapter 38 and read through 42.  You’ll notice that chapter 38 is where the conversation begins.  Job was not seeing God’s face as we think face, because God transformed into a whirlwind.

So as you can see there was always a transfiguration, which is something, that God allowed.  But we have never been able to see Him in His glory.  This is what those scriptures mean.  We have not seen him in His Glory!

Bantu_kelani wrote


Error number 1:
Isaiah, in 30:26, thinks that someday "the light of the moon will be as the light of the sun". This was written in the days when people thought the moon gave off it's own light. It does not. There is no "light of the moon".  

*Error number 2:
Matthew 4:8 states that there is a high mountain from which all the kingdoms of the world can be seen. There is no such thing. (Note: this implies a flat earth!)  

*Error number 3:
According to the bible, Ahaziah was 2 years older than his father Jehoram. What follows is an unbroken narrative from the Revised Standard Version, starting with 2nd Chronicles 21:20:  

Response:
Isiah:  In my understanding of the scripture Isaiah spent most of 30 talking about bad things that will happen.  30:26 is a part of a contrast that shows good things to come if people will humble themselves.  But even further, he is given importance to day and night and not reflecting on the illuminating powers of the moon.

Matthew:  This is not a reflection of a flat earth.  In Matthew 4:8 Satan was trying to tempt Jesus.  So now we have deities on this mountain and not men.  With that being said, the entire universe could have been viewed since they were not inhibited by 20/20 vision.  Actually they could have stood on the ground if they wanted to and saw the whole world.  They weren’t human.

II Chronicles 21:20:  The Bible does not say that there was an immediate displacement or placement of power.  Even if the Bible were bogus as you suggested, you’d have to be an idiot to write a text that would allow a son to be older than a Father.  As you say the Bible is political propaganda.  The political powers that be would not let it ride this way (in error).  Moreover, the linages of these kings are sparse because of their lack of importance.  These were kings that were not liked; you don’t record too much of a person’s history if they are devoid of value.

Bantu Kelani wrote: The bible excluded the Mayans, Inca, Eskimos, Australians, Indus, Japanese and Chinese. They are never mentioned and how come they don't have a prophet in the bible. Seems to me like the God of your bible is the one bigoted.  

Response:  You jumped off subject again with this response and did not answer my question.  MY Original Statement was: So in your religion, if your god only represents us as black people, are the rest of the races damned?  And oh my goodness, what happens to people of cross-cultural races.  If religion is indigenous to race, then multi-racial people are screwed.  These are merely observations and questions.

So first let me address your new argument:  Nope, my God is not a bigot.  Throughout the New Testament Paul talks about churches in Asia and other places.  Even greater is the Great Commission found in Matthew 28:19-20  Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.  Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always even to the end of the age.  The scripture illustrates 2 principles:  We’re not bigots and those who enslaved people weren’t Christians.  If you observe what Christ taught, you would not abuse people.  IF you go into all nations you are including everyone.  LOVE LOVE LOVE!

So that leaves the questions still:
1.      Does your religion only represent black people?
2.      Are mixed raced people doomed?

Bantu_Kelani wrote:  The BOOK of the Coming forth by Day is hierolyglypics inscribed at the Temple of Luxor date more than 10,000 years ago!  

Response:  Again the question was not answered.  I understand what the Book of the Coming Forth By Day is.  This was the question: As to the Book of the Dead  Did not a man write it?  Is it not then subjected to the same claims that you bring against Christianity?

So it’s original text was a hieroglyph.  Which means man wrote it.  Which means it is privy to subjective undertones. Further, it has been translated into modern day language.  Which means in the translation process original meaning was lost.  Which means we are back at the original question.  And if this book contains lessons of spirituality then it is a doctrine.  And if this doctrine was so great, why is it so lost?  I’m not trying to be condescending.  It just seems that if the spirituality was so high people would not have allowed themselves to be robbed of it.

Bantu_Kelani wrote: There is almost total absence of archaeological evidence backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon. Knowing these facts are you still going to claim Moses existed?

Response:  Almost doesn’t count.  There’s still so much in this world that has been unturned.  It’s there.  We just don’t know where to look.  But there are several theories as to who Moses was or wasn’t.  Some even say he was Akenhaten.  I believe that he was Moses and lived and died as the Bible says!

Bantu_Kelani wrote: You ask me if I understand the King James Version of the Holy Bible and Christianity?  Answer NO! I believe in the ORIGINAL scriptures produced by Negroid Africans for Negroid Africans more than 12,000 years in Alkebu-lan. Before the Greeks, our Civilization was much MORE SPIRITUAL and had much MORE INTEGRITY.

Response:  If you don’t understand Christianity, then why do you call it bogus and non-sense?   Just say you don’t understand and leave it at that.  You don’t see me bashing your religion.  I don’t understand it.  Consequently, I question it.  You throw around scriptures as if you understand them, but you don’t.  That’s dangerous! You will take your misinterpretations and present them as facts.  How can you present a fact on something you don’t understand?  …The original scriptures for us by us (FUBU).  This isn’t a clothing line.  We are talking about souls.  I’m going to Bluntly Honest:  I will never belong to something that excludes people based on race.  If I do that, I am no better than my oppressor.

Bantu_Kelani wrote:  When you PRAY just remember every Negroid African slaves the Church captured, raped and lynched in the 'GOOD SHIP JESUS' in 1619.  Amen!

Response:  This may seem harsh but I pray for the living.  The dead have left this world and are awaiting judgment.  It’s too late for them now.  However, I don’t think that was the point of your statement.  I’ve read about the good ship Jesus.  What happened on that ship and every other was wrong.  We never should have been there, but what the Devil means for our harm God means for I good.  I know have a ancestral linage full of sacrifice and endurance.  I can take pride in the strength of my race.  As to the church doing this…Nah….The church is the body of Christ, an undefiled temple.  Some imitators, they did it, and when my Father gets through with them on the Day of Judgment…


So based on the first post and response you still have left many questions blank. So, I will just outline them for you
1.      Do you really understand the Christian philosophy, or do you just hate the perverted versions of it that you've HEARD?
2.      What’s wrong with loving your neighbor as yourself?
3.      If religion is indigenous to race, then are multi-racial and other races of people are screwed?
4.      Color is a physical attribute and carnal in nature.  I answer to a power much higher than any carnal weight.  Does your religion allow you to do the same
5.      What is your concise answer regarding Genesis one (keeping in mind the knowledge was spoken before it was written)?
6.      If the BOOK of BOOK of the Coming forth by Day was written by man and translated by man, does it not come under the same scrutiny you place on the Bible?
7.      If my God is fake, you have not accounted for my blessings, direct answers to specific prayers, and my undying faith.  Can you?  It’s not anyone else answering me because I haven’t spoken with them.
8.      Can you address the differences between a spiritual walk and carnal walk in one’s day to day life and how those differences allow you to formulate different conclusions to questions
9.      If you don’t understand Christianity can you cease to degrade it?
10.      Can you accept the fact there are Christians who serve a living God, do all that they can to keep His commandments, and do not feel entrapped, enslaved or devalued by their beliefs.  I don’t; I love my God.  I want to love Him more, give Him more.  I want people to see the God in me.  I’m not European.  This was not forced on to me.  I have been introduced to other ways, and I choose this path.  I do all I can to do the will of the Lord.  Can you accept that we exist and our spirituality levels are high.  We are liberated, we are Christians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Sealed by faith

Sealedbyaith thanks for the reply and your explanations!

I approach this subject without malice for it is Important to my understanding that the Male Chauvinist Murder cults whether it be Islam, Christianity, Black Hebrew, or Judaism caused DESTRUCTION on Indigenous African Religions and the Holocaust it had on Black people the world over.. (Western) Christianity has brought destruction and caused converts and proselytes to be ashamed of their indigenous African heritage. Do you or do you not SEE this? Apparently you do not as lack of information and fanatic approach collides with the Historical, archeological and anthropological authenticities I bring forth.

It is my belief that you still failed to defend your faith against the argument that Christianity caused destruction to the original Customs and Civilization of Black people... From the perspective of a cultural and spiritual oppressed african, my aim is to accuse Islam, Christianity, or Judaism all three religions was taken out of Africa, then resold to us by Male Chauvinist Murder cult societies which main purpose was a justification and a rationalization for the slave trade and murder and exploitation of black people all over the World.  

Your argumentation borders misinformation. I suggest you go research a little bit more. My objective is not immaturity by attacking black folks characters', rather to effectively draw to their awareness the stench of religious, social, economical and political imperfections with the reality of Negroid Africans Exploitation and International Oppression that does 'Justice' to Caucasoid European politics in the world.

Go research the TRUTH!

Bantu-Kelani.

An Enlightening post by the member Pianke Nubiyang posted on the GRL board, date: friday, 19 September 2003...

--------------

WHY THE SINGULAR FOCUS

Actually, there was no singular focus. I realize there are many people in Rastafari who are not aware of the core and roots of Rastafari on the level that Haile Selassie would have dealt with it or how our ancestors dealt with it.

We must understand that religion in African tradition is a way of life, not a ceremony that takes place on Sundays. Like music and dancing, worship, recognition of ancestors, recognition of elemental forces, the study of the planets (as in Dogon religion) the initiation of males and females, the practice of dance and martial arts (like when the Brazilians practice capoeira or the Dogon do the Sigle dance to mimic the path of the Sirius star and its system), these are practices that are filled with sacred meaning.

Yet, we must also realize that nature in its wisdon and the Divine Mind of the Universe is about positivity. Its said that survival is for the "fittest" however nature and God programmed survival to be for the smartest as well as those who can endure.

If we look at economics and just society in general in the US what do we see. We see conditions arising that can lead to genocide of Black folk. AIDS, confinement, divorce, voilence, family breakups, intermarriage, gentrification, hoomelessness, lack of employment, being pushed aside by other more aggressive groups of people. Imagine, people who used to be veterans in wars have become the weakest of Americans becaue of not having that type of power and strength that is within us and needs to be used at all times. In order to use that power to ensure our survival, we must seek knowledge, seek the truth and apply it for our benefit.

Hence, we are in our right to recognize and worship but we must also realize that we are living on planet earth and we are no longer slaves. The slavemaster told us to forget about living a decent life on earth and instead work on his plantation, be obdient, accept poverty and we shall all go to heaven. In the meanwhile, the slavemaster would continue to enslave us and have us working for him/her as beasts of burden.

Believe men, this trickery is also found in other types of religion where oppression of Blacks is the core of the practices of the highest levels of these religions. Take a look at the June Issue of National Geographic about India's Dalits or "Untouchables," or better yet, read "A History of Racism and Terrorism, Rebellion and Overcoming," pub. by www.xlibris.com or "The Black Untouchables of India," by V.T. Rajshekar www.claritypress.com

If we sit back and not use our intelligence to help elevate, protect and save our people by teaching them survival skills as well as spiritual and other benefits, we are not going to survive to carry on our mission. One cannot expect to be effective when one is struggling to survive, hence, one has to know one's true history.

That history will show that in order to survive there must be a strong economic, educational and political foundation. If one looks at Judiasm, Christianity or the Khemite/Egyptian religions before, one will notice that they were the strongest institutions in the cultures they existed. The Egyptians and Nubians were strong scholars, they were the first People of the Book and studied. The Jews and Christians continued this tradition.

To promote the African point of view in Rastafari is the way to go as far as I am concerned. I have read on Budhism, Hinduism and Shinto as well as Judiasm, Islam and Christianity. All these religions have at their core the recognition and practice of their native culture. So what's wrong with returning Rastafari to the African core? There is of course the spiritual aspect and there is the cultural aspect. The cultural aspect is ancient and modern African culture and civilization. The country of origins is Egypt, Nubia, Ethiopia and since most of us int the Americas are of the Mende-Kongo linguistic and cultural group of Africa, recognizing that part of our being is also very important.

We are not being complelte if we simply are applying only a small piece of all we can be. Is there a system of temple building with an African style of architecture for Rastafari temples?

Is there a system of meditation and spiritualism making use of the mystic powers that the original seers used?

What about our sacred texts. There are many of course including the Kebra Negashi. Shouldn't we be working to revive the cultural and moral benefits that come out of African culture and help return it to the people in a time when we are being bombarded with filth all over the air and when the enemies of Black people/Africans and people of good will are spreading some of the most vile and racist propaganda against Blacks since the Nazi era?

We should have contole of media to include radio and television stations so we can spread a message of unity and upliftment on both the spiritual and secular basis.

Let me give thanks to those who read my article and those who posted it. Folks for good 24-hour Black talk radio on a large number of issues, get an xm satellite radio www.xmradio.com and listen to Power 169 as well a over 160 radio stations from reggae and African music to the BBC and Discovery Radio.

looking for some great reading, go to "Black Books" http://community.webtv.net/nubianem

nubianem2@webtv.net

People are free to and have a right to believe what ever they want to believe. I will just state things as i see them. If ones think that whatever path is true, then they should just try to give their all in it.

Christianity like Islam and other mainstream religions were developed from the periphery of indigenous African traditions. Christianity,Judaism, Islam  was never the highlight was never the highpoint of African consciousness, as it contained just fragments of authentic practices but lacked the totality to provide a holistic framework for higher development. Concepts and stories from African civilizations provided the foundation for a lot of the mythology, beliefs and practices found in Christianity and the bible. The Virgin Mary and Jesus is a carbon copy of Isis (Auset) and Heru (Horus) which existed thousands of years before the alleged birth of 'Jesus the Christ'. This version of Auset and Heru, remodeled with White skin, blue eyes and blond hair has been one of the most damaging myths ever unleashed on the Black world. It upheld the notion that light/white skin is the epitome of what is best and this notion has been just another piece of the White Supremacy puzzle that has been propagated in Christianity's bloody quest to assert itself as a global religious powerhouse.

History has documented the massacres , savagery and ruthlessness of Christianity, shown by missionaries, explorers and mercenaries alike, intent on gaining money and power at all cost. The belief that God has a chosen people as put forth by the bible has also caused havoc globally, causing some manaics in this time to claim divine authorisation to invade, plunder and kill, as with the story of the Israelites plunder of Canaan where God suppossedly gave the order to invade, kill and plunder alnd that wasn't theirs. Added to this confusion is the inferior position that the woman is relegated to in the Bible where she is blamed for the downfall of mankind. The patriachal nature of the bible is often taken for granted, a reflection of the wider world where Patriarchalism and the resulting implication of female discrmiination is glossed over and ignored.

The story of Adam and Eve (adapted from the people of Sumer)can only be about 7 thousand years for the most, while mankind has been around for much much much longer. Yet there are a lot of people who view this as a historical fact. Manipulation of media/education to give credence to these myths have been one of the hallmarks of Global Patriachal White Supremacy. The so called Ten commandments suppossedly handed down to Moses on Mt Sinai are part of a larger collection of precepts, called the Precepts of Maat that outdate Moses. There is much evidence far older than the bible that very clearly shows the foundation not only of The Bible and Christianity but Hinduism, Bhuddism, philosophy, engineering, medicine, astrology, astonomy, numbers, the alphabet, mathematics, physics, chemistry etc. The evidence is there, but its not highlighted in the mainstream media because those that are in control are ignorant, have their own agenda's or both. As a result they have no wish to upset the status quo of their own priveleges.

I think that the bible contains some truth, and within the framework of conscious self development, a higher understanding of the stories contained in the bible could be realized. However i don't think that it is necessary to a person's development. All the truth and keys needed to unlock the mysteries of the universe is within, and need to be directly experienced to be properly validated. It has been the shortfall of mainstream religion to think that the infinite nature of the cosmic consciousness(God) could be captured in the boundedness of a book. Even the most 'God inspired' wriiter can't relay the fullness of an experience with words. The experience has to be experienced for it to be properly  and fully understood. There is no substitute for experiece especially not (blind) faith. The experience is the ultimate evidence.
For me, its more than having a strict set of rules that says don't do this, do that. Its about providing context for one's every action and critically examining the intention behind such actions.

I think that people can discern through the truths of any religion even Christianity and evolve to higher essential truths. However it takes courage and integrity (among other things) to work through the years of social conditioning that ecourages the masses to walk away from the reality of their divinity and engage blind faith. Those that imbibe this conditioning, often can do no better than uphold the status quo of injustice and inequality because that is what is taught to them. They are systemically taught to blind themselves.

There is no shortcut around the hard work of constant character refinement and critical self examination. Those that want to use the idea of a savior (other than oneself) or repetance as an excuse not to do the work necessary to reconcile with one's Higher self can do so, but natural law is accorded whether one is knowledgeable about it or not. In grasping history, reasoning, and examining every word, thought and deed, we can elevate ourselves beyond the prison of our own karmic creation.

Tyehimba

Bantu_Kelani,

I think you and I could go on for an eternity and neither of us would back down from what we believe.  I have defended my faith.  My faith is what get's me through this world.  I have defended the Christian faith.  I have shown you your misinterpretations of scriptures.  I have answered your questions.  You on the other hand have failed to answer mine specifically.  Honestly,  I don't want you to.  I want you to really think about my questions and all of the responses I have made.  I am at peace with my decision to be a Christian.  I serve a Loving God.  My God is love.  As such that is what Christianity is.  I know people have done horrible things in the name of Jesus.  They even did so in the Bible.  It took a demon to tell those people:  Peter I know, Jesus I know, but you I do not know.  The demon over took them because they did not have the authority to use the name of Jesus.  They were perverted men with evil hearts.  People like that still exist.  Yet, they will be judged.  They will say in the day of judgement:  haven't I cast out demons and healed the sick in your name.  And the Lord will say, "Depart from me ye workers of iniquity".  "I never knew you"  He will say the same to those who have robbed and killed in His name as well.  Evil will give an account for its deeds.  

With that said, lets move on.  Reflection must place before we can revisit this topic.  

Peace My Sister
PS-I was serious about the French Lessons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Raspect Warrior Queen, Bantu KELANI!

Bantu_Kelani wrote:  An Enlightening post by the member Pianke Nubiyang posted on the GRL board, date: friday, 19 September 2003...

What or Where is the GRL board.  With posts like the one you shared with us flow like that, there appears ones could benefit from such shared knowledge.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes Bantu,  and to all the contributors of this thread.  Just follow your spirit to the facts.

Bless
QueenBarakah

Posted by: Sealedbyfaith
I have answered your questions.  You on the other hand have failed to answer mine specifically. With that said, lets move on.  Reflection must place before we can revisit this topic

Sister allow me to answer your questions this morning, as this topic of  Judaism, Christianity & Islam as the handmaiden for the development of Racism is Important and wrenching to me. I will NOT move on. until TOTAL liberation of black African minds occur..

1.Do you really understand the Christian philosophy, or do you just hate the perverted versions of it that you've HEARD?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are religions that were created to enslave the human race, and they still do today. Christianity damaged African spirituality! Our ancestors and ourselves were ripped from our ORIGINAL LANGUAGE, SOCIAL TENETS, RELIGION, and CULTURE, WAY OF LIFE. What you see today (this is a FACT!), since we as peoples are pushed into the bottom of the economic pole...No, I didn't HEAR about it baby, you and I daily experience this oppression! I urge you to gain Knowledge about these religiosn the oppressors are spreading as a way to damage our African minds. You lack knowledge of too many facts, you are a good demonstration of why we as a people need to study our African spirituality!

2. What's wrong with loving your neighbor as yourself?

I never said spirituality was wrong (if it's what you mean). Ethics, morals values, religion or spirituality is the CORE of African beings; alongside culture it forms all the basis of our identity. However, our ORIGINAL ethics moral values, spirituality were removed from us as a way to diminish us. So, I will NEVER believe the oppressive 'spirituality' of the Conquers, I prefer the purer and KIND of our ancestors'!

3. If religion is indigenous to race, then are multi-racial and other races of people are screwed?

Why are you twisting my words?? I never claim indigenous African spirituality is EXCLUSIVE to Negroid Africans! However, I said countless times, before the worship the foreign Male Chauvinist Murder religions, African Civilization WERE MUCH MORE SPIRITUAL and HAD MUCH MORE INTEGRITY! Christianity, Islam or Judaism are culturally ANTITHETICAL to indigenous African spirituality because it teaches separation from others instead of Oneness. ONENESS was the foundation of original African beliefs! Besides, this bible of yours concern specific geographic areas, Europe (Greece, Rome, Persia), the Middle East/Tigris and Euphrates region (Canaan, Sumer, Babylon..) and north-east Africa (Egypt-Ethiopia, Nubia). And I'm STILL waiting you tell me WHY the Mayans, Incas, Australians, Chinese and Indus are NOT mentioned in the bible and why they don't have a prophet??

When I hear black Christians like you emotionally proclaim that ancient mystical faith of Africa is exclusively black, I question whether this is some sort of spiritual cognitive dissonance? Even if the latter was true, black Christians like you fail to mention in your critique that capitalist Christianity used RACISM to make the biblical characters EUROPEAN in video, media, Hollywood etc...Whereas, before the Roman Empire embraced Christianity, there were 2 popes, one was always of black African descent (or least resided in Africa), according to Dr. Henrik Clarke and Richard Poe, author of "Black Spark, White Fire. the perception of Christ and the Bible being 'white". It seems to me, that THE INGENIOUS WHITE EUROPEANS SATANIC PLAN TO MAKE THE BIBLICAL CHARACTERS MOSTLY CAUCASOID WORKED! Knowing these facts, do you still claim the spirituality of our ancestors bigoted!?

4. Color is a physical attribute and carnal in nature.  I answer to a power much higher than any carnal weight.  Does your religion allow you to do the same?

Thousand of years before the tribes of Israel, the Ancient mystical wisdom of our ancestors's teached GOD-Consciousness , adoration, tolerance and compassion for ALL humans, dedication to Nature and science!  Our original spirituality, helped our ancestors to rise to GLORY form this physical world, whereas Judaism, Christianity or Islam indoctrinate Male Chauvinist Murder tenets and teaches the masses of our people to reject reality for a fictive heaven and discourage us of a better life on EARTH through revolution!

As I see it, instead of the redemption of our souls, the whole point of Christianity was/is used to dominate and enslave people the world over. It is your capitalist religion the carnal one..I don't know any indigenous Afrikan religions that teach murder and mayhem in similar fashion as Islam bemoans women and Christianity teaches the curse of Ham!

5. What is your concise answer regarding Genesis one (keeping in mind the knowledge was spoken before it was written)?

The myth of Genesis is an Endiku tale that existed in Sumer thousand of years before the patriarchal faith of Abraham! The Genesis story in the bible was STOLEN from Sumer tales then corrupted to praise white and male supremacy! I don't believe  the Lies in the bible, it's a corrupt human document that justified the slave trade against black people.  

6. If the BOOK of BOOK of the Coming forth by Day was written by man and translated by man, does it not come under the same scrutiny you place on the Bible?

Only a few modern "Book of the Coming Forth by Day" transcripts are printed! They sitll remain MORE TRUTHFUL than the bible, as they are a DIRECT hieroglyphic translation of the ancient mystical teachings of our ancestors, the Kemetcu (black humans)! The bible in the other hand was written, changed and revised by white Capitalists in a 2,490 years periods at various councils of Nicene/Constantinople and many many many many others, then used and abused by missionaries and "white Jesus" to enslave people of color the world over!


9. If you don't understand Christianity can you cease to degrade it?

What I do UNDERSTAND is that Christianity has made my people docile and passive while the so called white Christians rule the world and practice unchristian ways just as Islam has made the African an Arab! I don't only degrade it but always ATTACK it because its HISTORY in terms of its exploitation and HOLOCAUST to black people!

10. Can you accept the fact there are Christians who serve a living God, do all that they can to keep His commandments, and do not feel entrapped, enslaved or devalued by their beliefs...I want people to see the God in me.  I'm not European. This was not forced on to me.  I have been introduced to other ways, and I choose this path.  I do all I can to do the will of the Lord.  Can you accept that we exist and our spirituality levels are high.  We are liberated, we are Christians!

I beg to differ, the CREATOR is not in the company of badly informed! Christiany is not your Original spirituality baby, the Truth is YOUR ancestors spirituality were shun! The so-called western Christians teach you Greek myths among others stolen.... Why are you scared to pick up a book and read our original African mythology and philosophy? The attitude you have towards of our original spirituality is grieving. We are spitting on our ancestors' graves by continuing in this manner!!

As for you insinuating I'm a European/white racist, I think as a black African I should qualify to be racist considering all the injustices that are meted to me and members of my race!

Bantu-kelani.

King Tyehimba and Queen Bakarah,
I want thank you for giving me HOPE, too often being Conscious is lonely, and you begin to loose hope that people will come to the light, I am pleased and enlightened by all of your posts!


Ras_Tyehimba,
You have made a well-articulated contributions on this thread, with interesting and accurate points to challenge and consider... I hope the naysayers will eventually SEE a conflict of interest when a group of Negroid Africans depends on their enslavers/conquerors for 'spiritual' guidance[smiley=huh.gif]?? Why would our conquers/enslavers give our spiritual guidance that is beneficiary to the freedom of our mind?

Wo/man should ONLY borrow certain values from other parallel culture to enrich his/her own. No wonder sub-Saharan Afrika look sick and so stupid in the eyes of the world. The curse continues to menacingly bite [smiley=bigcry.gif].

Bantu-Kelani.