Some blacks say no comparison between their strugg

[Tyehimba]

Some blacks say no comparison between their struggle and gays

By JAY LINDSAY
Associated Press Writer

BOSTON --
Every time the Rev. Talbert Swan II hears the fight for gay marriage
compared to blacks' struggle for equality, it "sticks in my craw," he
said. By that measure, the Springfield minister, who is black, had an
aggravating week.

Supreme Court Justice Margaret Marshall cited landmark laws that struck
bans on interracial marriage in her majority opinion last week, which
declared it unconstitutional to deny same sex couples the right to
marry.

Since, numerous editorials and columns have linked the struggles. In
Wednesday's Democratic debate, both black candidates, Carol Moseley
Braun and the Rev. Al Sharpton, declared support for gay marriage, and
both compared it to past discrimination against blacks.

But Swan said the struggles of the groups don't compare, and a recent
national poll indicates little support for gay marriage among blacks.

Blacks were lynched, denied property rights and declared inhuman, Swan
said.

"Homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle," he said, "I could not chose the
color of my skin. ... For me to ride down the street and get profiled
just because of my skin color is something a homosexual will never go
through."

The Rev. William Sinkford, a black man who is president of the Unitarian
Universalist Association, said both sides have had different
experiences, but have seen similar discrimination. The struggle for gay
civil rights is this generation's great challenge, he said, just as
equality for blacks was the last generation's.

"I think there's very little to be gained by trying to create a
hierarchy of oppression," Sinkford said.

A poll released by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press on
Nov. 18, the day of the Supreme Judicial Court ruling, indicated 60
percent of blacks opposed gay marriage. They were also less likely than
both whites and Hispanics to support gay marriage, with just 28 percent
in favor.

When asked if they favored legal agreements with many of the same rights
as marriage, 51 percent of blacks opposed, with 37 percent in favor,
again fewer than Hispanics and whites.

Michael Adams, an attorney with the gay advocacy legal group, Lambda
Legal, said the split with the black community seems to revolve around
the marriage issue, noting polls show black support gays in other areas,
such as workplace equality. Strong conservative religious values that
predominate in the black community may explain that, he said.

He added that there's no question of key differences in the two
movements, including slavery and forced segregation, which gays never
experienced. But the groups have seen similar discrimination based on
deeply held prejudices, he said.

Emory College professor David Garrow said the legal histories of the two
movements have abundant parallels, including the arguments that marriage
between the races and sexes is unnatural and against God's law.
Homosexuals have also seen similar bias in the workplace when they've
made their sexual orientation known, he said.

But Mychal Massie, is a conservative columnist and member of Project 21,
a Washington D.C.-based political alliance of conservative blacks, said
the comparisons simply aren't valid.

"It is an outrage to align something so offensive as this with the
struggle of a fallen man, a great man such as Martin Luther King," said
Massie, who writes for WorldNetDaily.com.

"The whole thing bespeaks of something much deeper and more insidious
than we just want to get married," he said. "They want to change the
entire social order."

Alvin Williams, President and CEO of the Washington D.C.-based Black
America's Political Action Committee, a conservative group, said the gay
marriage issue looks like an equal rights issue at first, but becomes a
"special rights" issue after closer examination because it's about
behavior, not ethnicity. He added he understands why gays want to
associated with the civil rights movement.

"It seems like it would be a good fit," he said. "A lot of people have a
lot of good will associated with the civil and voting rights movement.
If they could make a comparison, it could create sympathy."

Adams said gay marriage advocates refer to the civil rights movement
only because it was so successful, not to make any gains by association.

"It is the model how to fight," Adams said.

[iyah360]

Corporate America has quickly accepted the homosexual lifestyle as legitimate.  

The acceptance of these "oppressed" people is unprecendented in the swiftness of actions taken on their behalf by the powers that be.

[leslie]

 the most ridiculous comparison ever...the black civil rights struggle and the gay rights movement. homos just want an excuse to practise their filthy deeds. how dare they compare it to what we as afrikan people have struggled to attain. these queer people need help and legalising what they do wouldnt solve anything.

[Kebo]

Leslie, you're obviously ignorant on homosexuality. You have the voice of an oppressor.

Any group of people born outside the 'norm', which is something like straight white confident males, is most likely gonna suffer some kind of identity crisis and face mental suffering in this world, and in turn will have to battle for positive self esteem and a sense of equality. In that regard I think all oppressed groups of people can relate on some level. The movements and backgrounds of the movements may not be identical but most likely there will be basis for comparison.

Kevin  

[Bantu_Kelani]

Kebo,

You HAVE to take a realistic look at homosexual Caucasians and Africans (homosexual or not) relations. What exactly do gay Caucasians bring to the table anyway? Or better yet, what have they TRIED to bring to the table? I can tell you a million ways in how homosexual Caucasians have benefited from Black blood, sweat, and tears. Every race who talks about mingling their oppression with us always ends up taking, as in political influence, economic resources, cultural clout, at our expense, then and turn around and exhibit the kind of bias that you manifest. I don't recall any whites homosexual freedom fighters coming to our aid when the whites were beating the hell out of us on TV in the 50's and 60's. How have any of the gay Caucasian groups deliberately helped our community?  Now you TELL me for I'd like to know.

Bantu-Kelani.

[Kebo]

I don't see why you keep referring to gays as gay caucasians.

What's the issue? Is the gay rights movement feeding off the fruits of the civil rights movement's labor? I didn't realize before. The final statement in the article states that the civil rights movement is a model on how to fight. That's where I was coming from before. A comparison can be drawn between blacks and gays on the basis that they both have to fight for their rights. The social system is psychologically damaging to both groups so it makes sense to relate on some level.

Any group fighting for itself should do its own work. The black struggle seems like the mightiest movement from which all other oppressed people can be inspired. Is that a crime? Or could it be that the Black race is the redeemer of humanity.
When following in a leader's footsteps the follower has got to step up and become the leader of their own movement, and get off the leader's payroll. If the issue in this case is the gay rights movement banking off the Black movement than it would do better for its own health in the long run to be independent.

Kebo

[Poetic_Princess]

Greetings,

This comparison to me sounds like utter rubbish no gay person can't compare they struggles to what our black race has gone through, they haven't been slaves or slaved on a plantation just to feed their children, or they haven't being forced to sleep with the master like our great great grand mothers had too nor have they being beaten and sent on slaves ships away from their family like Black people have.. they haven't even tasted no part of struggle because America has gotten so accepted of this homo lifestyle that they even got a gay priest so they just trying to make excuses
a black man gets ridicule just because he is black first thing that comes to a white man head is that he is a criminal but with gay people no one judge them of they skin some people can hardly recognise a gay man but you can always see and judge a BLACK man and the same way we fought for our rights so should they but don't dare use black people struggles as an excuse or comparison

[Bantu_Kelani]

Yes, Poetic_Princess what you said!

And I really believe Kebo need statistics orientation here... It's well known and accepted homosexuals are predominantly whites finding themselves in middle-class gay and lesbian community. Black gay men and lesbians are smaller in number but face a GREATER challenge than their white counterparts trying to fit in bigoted society and a racist world. When one does a comprehensive study on African people before the first invaders of Africa the Hysko's, you will see that African people didn't care about individuals' sexual preferences. Back in Africa it never was the job of African people to set the morals and value system of others, which is the paternalistic nonsense whites do with blacks today, and America attempts to do with the world...White gay men and lesbians who embrace black movements do it as feel good while they diametrically oppose black nationalists or radicals of today. HOW have they done so far to be inspired by or shake Black stigma?? Just look closely and you will see that in this world, blacks have always meant last, less than, it is reality, most people don't want to be associated with the losing team, even if they are stigmatized.

Bantu-Kelani.

[Tyehimba]

With regards to homosexuality, although i don't personally agree with it, i recognize people's divine right to make their choices and exercise their rights once it doesn't infringe on my rights. The whole arguement about whether it is right or wrong can be irrelevant to me sometimes because 'right' and 'wrong' are subjective statements. I don't think that it is necessary to impose my values, beliefs and experiences on others. AS Ayinde once highlighted, all conduct outside of conscious development is filled with poor evaluations and general insecurities.   So even if people are personally inclined towards homosexuality or not, once outside the realm of consciousness development, ignorance will be prevalent. At the core of this issue people sometimes being insecure about their own sexuality and in ignorance subjecting others to their insecurities. People have a right to be 'wrong' just as much as they have a right to be right once it doesn't infornge on thers rights. Making mistakes is integral to the process of learning and self development.

With this said, i don't think that gay struggle can be lumped together with the struggle that black go through for a number of reasons. Firstly Black automatically get discriminated against by their phenotype while their gays don't have an inherent unchangeable look that automatically generates oppression whereever they go. Secondly as Poetic Princess pointed out,  the total oppression of Blacks has been totally systematic and has been going on for centuries.  The Hollywood Media  that  promotes open homosexual and other pornographic acts inthe daytime especailly for young kids to view is totally unacceptable and needs to be countered by slternative media developed and run by conscious people. I see this as the only way forward.