Jon Rappoport interview of ex vaccine researcher
Q: You were once certain that vaccines were the hallmark of good medicine.
A: Yes I was. I helped develop a few vaccines. I won't say which ones.
Q: Why not?
A: I want to preserve my privacy.
Q: So you think you could have problems if you came out into the open?
A: I believe I could lose my pension.
Q: On what grounds?
A: The grounds don't matter. These people have ways of causing you
problems, when you were once part of the Club. I know one or two people
who were put under surveillance, who were harassed.
Q: Harassed by whom?
A: The FBI.
Q: Really?
A: Sure. The FBI used other pretexts. And the IRS can come calling too.
Q: So much for free speech.
A: I was "part of the inner circle." If now I began to name names and
make specific accusations against researchers, I could be in a world of
trouble.
Q: What is at the bottom of these efforts at harassment?
A: Vaccines are the last defense of modern medicine. Vaccines are the
ultimate justification for the overall "brilliance" of modern medicine.
Q: Do you believe that people should be allowed to choose whether they
should get vaccines?
A: On a political level, yes. On a scientific level, people need
information, so that they can choose well. It's one thing to say choice is
good. But if the atmosphere is full of lies, how can you choose?
Also, if the FDA were run by honorable people, these vaccines would not be
granted licenses. They would be investigated to within an inch of their
lives.
Q: There are medical historians who state that the overall decline of
illnesses was not due to vaccines.
A: I know. For a long time, I ignored their work.
Q: Why?
A: Because I was afraid of what I would find out. I was in the business
of developing vaccines. My livelihood depended on continuing that work.
Q: And then?
A: I did my own investigation.
Q: What conclusions did you come to?
A: The decline of disease is due to improved living conditions.
Q: What conditions?
A: Cleaner water. Advanced sewage systems. Nutrition. Fresher food.
A decrease in poverty. Germs may be everywhere, but when you are healthy,
you don't contract the diseases as easily.
Q: What did you feel when you completed your own investigation?
A: Despair. I realized I was working a sector based on a collection of lies.
Q: Are some vaccines more dangerous than others?
A: Yes. The DPT shot, for example. The MMR. But some lots of a vaccine
are more dangerous than other lots of the same vaccine. As far as I'm
concerned, all vaccines are dangerous.
Q: Why?
A: Several reasons. They involve the human immune system in a process
that tends to compromise immunity. They can actually cause the disease
they are supposed to prevent. They can cause other diseases than the ones
they are supposed to prevent.
Q: Why are we quoted statistics which seem to prove that vaccines have
been tremendously successful at wiping out diseases?
A: Why? To give the illusion that these vaccines are useful. If a
vaccine suppresses visible symptoms of a disease like measles, everyone
assumes that the vaccine is a success. But, under the surface, the vaccine
can harm the immune system itself. And if it causes other diseases -- say,
meningitis -- that fact is masked, because no one believes that the vaccine
can do that. The connection is overlooked.
Q: It is said that the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox in England.
A: Yes. But when you study the available statistics, you get another
picture.
Q: Which is?
A: There were cities in England where people who were not vaccinated did
not get smallpox. There were places where people who were vaccinated
experienced smallpox epidemics. And smallpox was already on the decline
before the vaccine was introduced.
Q: So you're saying that we have been treated to a false history.
A: Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is a history that has been
cooked up to convince people that vaccines are invariably safe and effective.
Q: Now, you worked in labs. Where purity was an issue.
A: The public believes that these labs, these manufacturing facilities are
the cleanest places in the world. That is not true. Contamination occurs
all the time. You get all sorts of debris introduced into vaccines.
Q: For example, the SV40 monkey virus slips into the polio vaccine.
A: Well yes, that happened. But that's not what I mean. The SV40 got
into the polio vaccine because the vaccine was made by using monkey kidneys.
But I'm talking about something else. The actual lab conditions. The
mistakes. The careless errors. SV40, which was later found in cancer
tumors -- that was what I would call a structural problem. It was an
accepted part of the manufacturing process. If you use monkey kidneys, you
open the door to germs which you don't know are in those kidneys.
Q: Okay, but let's ignore that distinction between different types of
contaminants for a moment. What contaminants did you find in your many
years of work with vaccines?
A: All right. I'll give you some of what I came across, and I'll also
give you what colleagues of mine found. Here's a partial list. In the
Rimavex measles vaccine, we found various chicken viruses. In polio
vaccine, we found acanthamoeba, which is a so-called "brain-eating"
amoeba.
Simian cytomegalovirus in polio vaccine. Simian foamy virus in the
rotavirus vaccine. Bird-cancer viruses in the MMR vaccine. Various
micro-organisms in the anthrax vaccine. I've found potentially dangerous
enzyme inhibitors in several vaccines. Duck, dog, and rabbit viruses in
the rubella vaccine. Avian leucosis virus in the flu vaccine. Pestivirus
in the MMR vaccine.
Q: Let me get this straight. These are all contaminants which don't
belong in the vaccines.
A: That's right. And if you try to calculate what damage these
contaminants can cause, well, we don't really know, because no testing has
been done, or very little testing. It's a game of roulette. You take your
chances. Also, most people don't know that some polio vaccines, adenovirus
vaccines, rubella and hep A and measles vaccines have been made with
aborted human fetal tissue. I have found what I believed were bacterial
fragments and poliovirus in these vaccines from time to time -- which may
have come from that fetal tissue. When you look for contaminants in
vaccines, you can come up with material that IS puzzling. You know it
shouldn't be there, but you don't know exactly what you've got. I have
found what I believed was a very small "fragment" of human hair and also
human mucus. I have found what can only be called "foreign protein," which
could mean almost anything.
It could mean protein from viruses.
Q: Alarm bells are ringing all over the place.
A: How do you think I felt? Remember, this material is going into the
bloodstream without passing through some of the ordinary immune defenses.
Q: How were your findings received?
A: Basically, it was, don't worry, this can't be helped. In making
vaccines, you use various animals' tissue, and that's where this kind of
contamination enters in. Of course, I'm not even mentioning the standard
chemicals like formaldehyde, mercury, and aluminum which are purposely put
into vaccines.
Q: This information is pretty staggering.
A: Yes. And I'm just mentioning some of the biological contaminants.
Who knows how many others there are? Others we don't find because we don't
think to look for them. If tissue from, say, a bird is used to make a
vaccine, how many possible germs can be in that tissue? We have no idea.
We have no idea what they might be, or what effects they could have on humans.
Q: And beyond the purity issue?
A: You are dealing with the basic faulty premise about vaccines.
That they intricately stimulate the immune system to create the conditions
for immunity from disease. That is the bad premise. It doesn't work that
way.
A vaccine is supposed to "create" antibodies which, indirectly, offer
protection against disease. However, the immune system is much larger and
more involved than antibodies and their related "killer cells."
Q: The immune system is?
A: The entire body, really. Plus the mind. It's all immune system, you
might say. That is why you can have, in the middle of an epidemic, those
individuals who remain healthy.
Q: So the level of general health is important.
A: More than important. Vital.
Q: How are vaccine statistics falsely presented?
A: There are many ways. For example, suppose that 25 people who have
received the hepatitis B vaccine come down with hepatitis. Well, hep B is
a liver disease. But you can call liver disease many things. You can
change the diagnosis. Then, you've concealed the root cause of the problem.
Q: And that happens?
A: All the time. It HAS to happen, if the doctors automatically assume
that people who get vaccines DO NOT come down with the diseases they are
now supposed to be protected from. And that is exactly what doctors assume.
You see, it's circular reasoning. It's a closed system. It admits no
fault. No possible fault. If a person who gets a vaccine against
hepatitis gets hepatitis, or gets some other disease, the automatic
assumption is, this had nothing to do with the disease.
Q: In your years working in the vaccine establishment, how many doctors
did you encounter who admitted that vaccines were a problem?
A: None. There were a few who privately questioned what they were doing.
But they would never go public, even within their companies.
Q: What was the turning point for you?
A: I had a friend whose baby died after a DPT shot.
Q: Did you investigate?
A: Yes, informally. I found that this baby was completely healthy before
the vaccination. There was no reason for his death, except the vaccine.
That started my doubts. Of course, I wanted to believe that the baby had
gotten a bad shot from a bad lot. But as I looked into this further, I
found that was not the case in this instance. I was being drawn into a
spiral of doubt that increased over time. I continued to investigate.
I found that, contrary to what I thought, vaccines are not tested in a
scientific way.
Q: What do you mean?
A: For example, no long-term studies are done on any vaccines.
Long-term follow-up is not done in any careful way. Why? Because, again,
the assumption is made that vaccines do not cause problems. So why should
anyone check? On top of that, a vaccine reaction is defined so that all
bad reactions are said to occur very soon after the shot is given. But
that does not make sense.
Q: Why doesn't it make sense?
A: Because the vaccine obviously acts in the body for a long period of
time after it is given. A reaction can be gradual. Deterioration can be
gradual. Neurological problems can develop over time. They do in various
conditions, even according to a conventional analysis. So why couldn't
that be the case with vaccines? If chemical poisoning can occur gradually,
why couldn't that be the case with a vaccine which contains mercury?
Q: And that is what you found?
A: Yes. You are dealing with correlations, most of the time.
Correlations are not perfect. But if you get 500 parents whose children
have suffered neurological damage during a one-year period after having a
vaccine, this should be sufficient to spark off an intense investigation.
Q: Has it been enough?
A: No. Never. This tells you something right away.
Q: Which is?
A: The people doing the investigation are not really interested in looking
at the facts. They assume that the vaccines are safe. So, when they do
investigate, they invariably come up with exonerations of the vaccines.
They say, "This vaccine is safe." But what do they base those judgments
on? They base them on definitions and ideas which automatically rule out a
condemnation of the vaccine.
Q: There are numerous cases where a vaccine campaign has failed.
Where people have come down with the disease against which they were
vaccinated.
A: Yes, there are many such instances. And there the evidence is simply
ignored. It's discounted. The experts say, if they say anything at all,
that this is just an isolated situation, but overall the vaccine has been
shown to be safe. But if you add up all the vaccine campaigns where damage
and disease have occurred, you realize that these are NOT isolated situations.
Q: Did you ever discuss what we are talking about here with colleagues,
when you were still working in the vaccine establishment?
A: Yes I did.
Q: What happened?
A: Several times I was told to keep quiet. It was made clear that I
should go back to work and forget my misgivings. On a few occasions, I
encountered fear. Colleagues tried to avoid me. They felt they could be
labeled with "guilt by association." All in all, though, I behaved myself.
I made sure I didn't create problems for myself.
Q: If vaccines actually do harm, why are they given?
A: First of all, there is no "if." They do harm. It becomes a more
difficult question to decide whether they do harm in those people who seem
to show no harm. Then you are dealing with the kind of research which
should be done, but isn't. Researchers should be probing to discover a
kind of map, or flow chart, which shows exactly what vaccines do in the
body from the moment they enter. This research has not been done. As to
why they are given, we could sit here for two days and discuss all the
reasons. As you've said many times, at different layers of the system
people have their motives. Money, fear of losing a job, the desire to win
brownie points, prestige, awards, promotion, misguided idealism, unthinking
habit, and so on. But, at the highest levels of the medical cartel,
vaccines are a top priority because they cause a weakening of the immune
system. I know that may be hard to accept, but it's true. The medical
cartel, at the highest level, is not out to help people, it is out to harm
them, to weaken them.
To kill them. At one point in my career, I had a long conversation with a
man who occupied a high government position in an African nation. He told
me that he was well aware of this. He told me that WHO is a front for
these depopulation interests. There is an underground, shall we say, in
Africa, made up of various officials who are earnestly trying to change the
lot of the poor. This network of people knows what is going on. They know
that vaccines have been used, and are being used, to destroy their
countries, to make them ripe for takeover by globalist powers. I have had
the opportunity to speak with several of these people from this network.
Q: Is Thabo Mbeki, the president of South Africa, aware of the situation?
A: I would say he is partially aware. Perhaps he is not utterly
convinced, but he is on the way to realizing the whole truth. He already
knows that HIV is a hoax. He knows that the AIDS drugs are poisons which
destroy the immune system. He also knows that if he speaks out, in any
way, about the vaccine issue, he will be branded a lunatic. He has enough
trouble after his stand on the AIDS issue.
Q: This network you speak of.
A: It has accumulated a huge amount of information about vaccines.
The question is, how is a successful strategy going to be mounted? For
these people, that is a difficult issue.
Q: And in the industrialized nations?
A: The medical cartel has a stranglehold, but it is diminishing.
Mainly because people have the freedom to question medicines. However, if
the choice issue [the right to take or reject any medicine] does not gather
steam, these coming mandates about vaccines against biowarefare germs are
going to win out. This is an important time.
Q: The furor over the hepatits B vaccine seems one good avenue.
A: I think so, yes. To say that babies must have the vaccine-and then in
the next breath, admitting that a person gets hep B from sexual contacts
and shared needles -- is a ridiculous juxtaposition. Medical authorities
try to cover themselves by saying that 20,000 or so children in the US get
hep B every year from "unknown causes," and that's why every baby must have
the vaccine. I dispute that 20,00 figure and the so-called studies that
back it up.
Q: Andrew Wakefield, the British MD who uncovered the link between the MMR
vaccine and autism, has just been fired from his job in a London hospital.
A: Yes. Wakefield performed a great service. His correlations between
the vaccine and autism are stunning. Perhaps you know that Tony Blair's
wife is involved with alternative health. There is the possibility that
their child has not been given the MMR. Blair recently side-stepped the
question in press interviews, and made it seem that he was simply objecting
to invasive questioning of his "personal and family life." In any event, I
believe his wife has been muzzled. I think, if given the chance, she would
at least say she is sympathetic to all the families who have come forward
and stated that their children were severely damaged by the MMR.
Q: British reporters should try to get through to her.
A: They have been trying. But I think she has made a deal with her
husband to keep quiet, no matter what. She could do a great deal of good
if she breaks her promise. I have been told she is under pressure, and not
just from her husband. At the level she occupies, MI6 and British health
authorities get into the act. It is thought of as a matter of national
security.
Q: Well, it is national security, once you understand the medical cartel.
A: It is global security. The cartel operates in every nation. It
zealously guards the sanctity of vaccines. Questioning these vaccines is
on the same level as a Vatican bishop questioning the sanctity of the
sacrament of the Eucharist in the Catholic Church.
Q: I know that a Hollywood celebrity stating publicly that he will not
take a vaccine is committing career suicide.
A: Hollywood is linked very powerfully to the medical cartel. There are
several reasons, but one of them is simply that an actor who is famous can
draw a huge amount of publicity if he says ANYTHING. In 1992, I was
present at your demonstration against the FDA in downtown Los Angeles. One
or two actors spoke against the FDA. Since that time, you would be hard
pressed to find an actor who has spoken out in any way against the medical
cartel.
Q: Within the National Institutes of Health, what is the mood, what is the
basic frame of mind?
A: People are competing for research monies. The last thing they think
about is challenging the status quo. They are already in an intramural war
for that money. They don't need more trouble. This is a very insulated
system. It depends on the idea that, by and large, modern medicine is very
successful on every frontier. To admit systemic problems in any area is to
cast doubt on the whole enterprise. You might therefore think that NIH is
the last place one should think about holding demonstrations. But just the
reverse is true. If five thousand people showed up there demanding an
accounting of the actual benefits of that research system, demanding to
know what real health benefits have been conferred on the public from the
billions of wasted dollars funneled to that facility, something might start.
A spark might go off. You might get, with further demonstrations, all
sorts of fall-out. Researchers -- a few -- might start leaking information.
Q: A good idea.
A: People in suits standing as close to the buildings as the police will
allow. People in business suits, in jogging suits, mothers and babies.
Well-off people. Poor people. All sorts of people.
Q: What about the combined destructive power of a number of vaccines given
to babies these days?
A: It is a travesty and a crime. There are no real studies of any depth
which have been done on that. Again, the assumption is made that vaccines
are safe, and therefore any number of vaccines given together are safe as
well. But the truth is, vaccines are not safe. Therefore the potential
damage increases when you give many of them in a short time period.
Q: Then we have the fall flu season.
A: Yes. As if only in the autumn do these germs float in to the US from
Asia. The public swallows that premise. If it happens in April, it is a
bad cold. If it happens in October, it is the flu.
Q: Do you regret having worked all those years in the vaccine field?
A: Yes. But after this interview, I'll regret it a little less.
And I work in other ways. I give out information to certain people, when I
think they will use it well.
Q: What is one thing you want the public to understand?
A: That the burden of proof in establishing the safety and efficacy of
vaccines is on the people who manufacture and license them for public use.
Just that. The burden of proof is not on you or me. And for proof you
need well-designed long-term studies. You need extensive follow-up. You
need to interview mothers and pay attention to what mothers say about their
babies and what happens to them after vaccination. You need all these things.
The things that are not there.
Q: The things that are not there.
A: Yes.
Q: To avoid any confusion, I'd like you to review, once more, the disease
problems that vaccines can cause. Which diseases, how that happens.
A: We are basically talking about two potential harmful outcomes.
One, the person gets the disease from the vaccine. He gets the disease
which the vaccine is supposed to protect him from. Because, some version
of the disease is in the vaccine to begin with. Or two, he doesn't get
THAT disease, but at some later time, maybe right away, maybe not, he
develops another condition which is caused by the vaccine. That condition
could be autism, what's called autism, or it could be some other disease
like meningitis. He could become mentally disabled.
Q: Is there any way to compare the relative frequency of these different
outcomes?
A: No. Because the follow-up is poor. We can only guess. If you ask,
out of a population of a hundred thousand children who get a measles
vaccine, how many get the measles, and how many develop other problems from
the vaccine, there is a no reliable answer. That is what I'm saying.
Vaccines are superstitions. And with superstitions, you don't get facts
you can use. You only get stories, most of which are designed to enforce
the superstition. But, from many vaccine campaigns, we can piece together
a narrative that does reveal some very disturbing things. People have been
harmed. The harm is real, and it can be deep and it can mean death.
The harm is NOT limited to a few cases, as we have been led to believe.
In the US, there are groups of mothers who are testifying about autism and
childhood vaccines. They are coming forward and standing up at meetings.
They are essentially trying to fill in the gap that has been created by the
researchers and doctors who turn their backs on the whole thing.
Q: Let me ask you this. If you took a child in, say, Boston and you
raised that child with good nutritious food and he exercised every day and
he was loved by his parents, and he didn't get the measles vaccine, what
would be his health status compared with the average child in Boston who
eats poorly and watches five hours of TV a day and gets the measles vaccine?
A: Of course there are many factors involved, but I would bet on the
better health status for the first child. If he gets measles, if he gets
it when he is nine, the chances are it will be much lighter than the
measles the second child might get. I would bet on the first child every
time.
Q: How long did you work with vaccines?
A: A long time. Longer than ten years.
Q: Looking back now, can you recall any good reason to say that vaccines
are successful?
A: No, I can't. If I had a child now, the last thing I would allow is
vaccination. I would move out of the state if I had to. I would change
the family name. I would disappear. With my family. I'm not saying it
would come to that. There are ways to sidestep the system with grace, if
you know how to act. There are exemptions you can declare, in every state,
based on religious and/or philosophic views. But if push came to shove, I
would go on the move.
Q: And yet there are children everywhere who do get vaccines and appear to
be healthy.
A: The operative word is "appear." What about all the children who can't
focus on their studies? What about the children who have tantrums from
time to time? What about the children who are not quite in possession of
all their mental faculties? I know there are many causes for these things,
but vaccines are one cause. I would not take the chance. I see no reason
to take the chance. And frankly, I see no reason to allow the government
to have the last word. Government medicine is, from my experience, often a
contradiction in terms. You get one or the other, but not both.
Q: So we come to the level playing field.
A: Yes. Allow those who want the vaccines to take them. Allow the
dissidents to decline to take them. But, as I said earlier, there is no
level playing field if the field is strewn with lies. And when babies are
involved, you have parents making all the decisions. Those parents need a
heavy dose of truth. What about the child I spoke of who died from the DPT
shot? What information did his parents act on? I can tell you it was
heavily weighted. It was not real information.
Q: Medical PR people, in concert with the press, scare the hell out of
parents with dire scenarios about what will happen if their kids don't get
shots.
A: They make it seem a crime to refuse the vaccine. They equate it with
bad parenting. You fight that with better information. It is always a
challenge to buck the authorities. And only you can decide whether to do
it. It is every person's responsibility to make up his mind. The medical
cartel likes that bet. It is betting that the fear will win.
Dr. Mark Randall is the pseudonym of a vaccine researcher who worked for
many years in the labs of major pharmaceutical houses and the US
government's National Institutes of Health.
Mark retired during the last decade. He says he was "disgusted with what
he discovered about vaccines."
As you know, since the beginning of nomorefakenews, I have been launching
an attack against non-scientific and dangerous assertions about the safety
and efficacy of vaccines.
Mark has been one of my sources.
He is a little reluctant to speak out, even under the cover of anonymity,
but with the current push to make vaccines mandatory -- with penalties like
quarantine lurking in the wings -- he has decided to break his silence.
He lives comfortably in retirement, but like many of my long-time sources,
he has developed a conscience about his former work. Mark is well aware of
the scope of the medical cartel and its goals of depopulation, mind
control, and general debilitation of populations.
http://www.whale.to/v/rapp.html
Author
