INTERVIEW WITH RAS KABINDA (PART ONE)

EXTRACT FROM DREAD,RASTAFARI AND ETHIOPIA

(c) 2010 RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

TELEPHONE INTERVIEW
WITH
RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

SUNDAY, 29 NOVEMBER, 2009

BLACK ACTIVIST AND RASTAFARIAN ELDER, RAS KABINDA, FORMERLY DESMOND TROTTER CONSENTED TO BE INTERVIEWED VIA TELEPHONE. HE CANDIDLY SPOKE ABOUT HIS UP BRINGING AND HOW HE WAS DRAWN IN THE BLACK POWER STRUGGLE, HIS CONVICTION FOR KILLING A WHITE MAN ON THE STREETS OF ROSEAU AND HIS EVENTUALLY DECISION TO REPATRIATE TO ETHIOPIA.

THE CONTENTS OF THIS INTER VIEW FORMED A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF MY RESEARCH FOR DREAD RASTAFARI AND EHTIOPIA: A HISTORICAL ACCOUNT OF THE RASTAFARI MOVEMENT IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF DOMINICA.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Hail RAS KABINDA how you’re doing today? How is the man today?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well, everything is blessed. I start to see an improvement. I’m using comfrey, that I’m putting on it now. It kind of drying it up.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yea, everything will be ire in due time, you know what I am saying.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yea, is just a little rest. Sometimes the father does make you take a rest. So I man just take it so. Man just have to humble his spirit in time.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS
Well, I don’t know if your ready for us to do the little interview for us to get some of your…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well, we can talk, I man just there not doing nothing, I man just a chill.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Well as you know I am putting together this little publication to kind of document I and I history as Rastafarians in Dominica, and how the movement evolved from the Black power days, to your present stance in I-Tiopia. I know you’ve been there for 20 years, and more. But will get to that in due course. But I just want to kind of go back to your early days. Tell us something about you, your background, and how you gradually began to get conscious of the black power struggle, and give us some anecdotes of what happened in the early days.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well in the early days, from when I was about 15,16 years old, I and I were inspired from reading history books, and reading some of the writings of Kwame Nkrumah
and Cabral, and His Majesty, and Castro who were the thinkers of the time, you understand and the black power struggle in America had start to manifest in Trinidad in the 70s. Those were real revolutionary days there. All those things kind a stirred up little vibes within man’s spirit, and as man began to get conscious of what is really going on with the youth. You the spirit just interest man , like black consciousness is the path that I and I people supposed to be pursuing. At a young age, the movement was really at the St. Mary’s Academy where they had kick a youth. A brother [Christian brother] had kick a youth. Think I had just come out [left high school] of school at that time.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

What year was that?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

That was …I can’t really remember

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah, because we are talking about events that happened over 30 years ago, maybe 40 years ago.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Almost about that yeah. Almost about that because we were really young, about 16, 17. You remember Pierro?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

He is in England now. Pierro. Pierro was at that time together with I as a young man, we start and really organized that movement there. We started the student movement against oppression. There was Birdeaux. You remember Birdeaux Shillingford. Him had gone up to America for a while. He was more with those brothers form MND. You remember movement for a new Dominica.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Were you one of the founding members of the MND with Birdeaux and Pierro you said?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

No, not that Pierro. With MND it was more with Ronald Green, brothers like Para Riviere, Julian Johnson, Swinburne Lestrade those were the crew that really started Movement for a New Dominica. Remember, I and I had branch off, and started Twavay, Manicou Movements, things like that and Black Cry, and them things so.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

These were organisations, or newspapers you set up?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Remember I used to publish two little pamphlets, small papers that was the main reason that led to me being condemned because these were the papers I and I used to produce: Black Cray and Twavay. You know there was different things we used to produce. We used to distributed that all in the ghetto. That was our ways and means we used to raise consciousness. We used to adapt writing from man Walter Rodney, especially Walter Rodney from his book ‘Grounding with our Brothers.’ We used to se a lot of his reasoning on African history and things like that. Enlighten the youth and them.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

And where was your headquarters at that time? From where you used to operate?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

28 Great Marlborough Street [Roseau] You remember Donald Peters and them brothers? Yeah, Donald Peters at that time, them was more involved with MND, Movement for a New Dominica. Them man leave afterwards together with Hilroy Thomas Them man go America and them man get doctorate in education. Them use the educational platform, you know, to promote the struggle.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

We will come to that in a while, because that is on of the thins I have been telling Tempie that, a lot of the present day politicians were in fact Black power activists in their youth, you know. So they should be more conscious as the professionals today…the lawyers and the doctors and…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

All those who are in government now are brothers who grew up with I and I, and the other day the foreign minister of Dominica [Vince Henderson] come right in I yard in Ethiopia and check I out. Telling I must come and check them in DA [Dominica], check little vibes and, you understand. He tell I that my elder brother retired now, he come back and he working with them, and this and that, and he together with the youth and them. I hear in Dominica now that they saying the prime minister tell them that any man from DA that want to go to Ethiopia now he don’t bound to have visas and they seeking to open diplomatic relations with Ethiopia. So is I and now have to instil those consciousness in them man. You can’t be separated because of the borders. And you see, like how I man been out there so long, them man show I a little respect , and try create certain dialogue and communication with I and I, give I and I certain diplomatic status. So what is crippling I and I out there, we are still being treated like we are Europeans. We have no status to stand up and say, nah! We are a sovereign people, were are one people, you and I. You see because through I and I have no diplomatic status in here in Ethiopia. There is no one really to stand up and talk for I and I. And to get into them man offices is always a bit it like, you know…is almost a political manipulation you have to get involved get in to them office.

So this is the disadvantage out there. Because the things they doing us out there, we not supposed to be going through those things. This is African Union headquarters, you over stand? This is the base of liberty. And how is it that we are in black Africa and we have no rights, you overstand? If you don’t have money to get qualify as and investor…you have to show you have about three quarter million Birr [Ethiopian currency] If you cannot show that money to get an investment certificate you can’t really get a legal status as a man returning as an African, you know. That is what is written in the constitution. These are things that right now that we a try to go to the prime minister and the African Union about. Between the next few days that is where we will be heading. Some brothers already go there and get invitation to go Libya to attend certain meetings on repatriation. We trying to penetrate that into their heads that we are a neglected people, we are supposed to be honoured as people who returned home coming from trials and tribulation of slavery. You see like places and Ghana and Tanzania they have a much more opened policy, and you get assistance from government, they give you land, for this and that. But here the Shashemane Land Grant has been taken away. The Government does not offer us any alternative land to where we can set up and develop. The little lands that we have in Shashemane right now, they are cutting up everything. You can’t have more than 500 square metre person. It is like we are coming back into the same city vibes, where we come home to live as man.

It is so fundamentally important that we need to get land. If we don’t get land, we won’t be able to survive here as a people. These are some of the realities that we face here now and we trying to set it up now to a level to make sure that within the next couple months, or somehow, we have to get land and get capital in order to implement a program on the land. You understand? These are some of the crucial things that are acing I and I out here.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Ok…Let us go back to the early Black power days. Tell me about the various African liberation Day marches, the Four Corner days, who were the main speakers that used to kind of inspire the crowds in those times, and where those events used to take place?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well in the early days of African Liberation Day . We first organised that. The first one was in Windsor Park. We had marches through the streets and things like that. That time we had brothers like Donald Peters, Hilroy Thomas, Julian Johnson, Para Riviere, Ron Green and I self used to be among the main speakers. Para Riviere and Julian Johnson them two brothers that played a crucial role in educating a lot of the ghetto, you know. Raising a lot of conscious among the youth and them. Them man did a lot of work, Julian Johnson, Para Riviere through education. They used to come around…most of them were based at universities and whenever they would come around they would spend a lot of time in the ghetto, you know, educating the youth them. Ron Green and them brothers there, Donald Peters…them man played their part. All those brothers like Bernard Wilshire for a certain time, he was crucial in that too, especially in the Grand Bay region, Portsmouth, Mahaut, Massacre we used to move though out the villages hosting educational programs, raising consciousness, organising the people and things like that so …

There were a lot of other brothers like, Mwata, you know. Mwata was more like, I and Mwata more used to operate at the grass root level in printing little newspapers and distributing them, backing up the other movement, and any other movement them other man and them would be trying to organise and things like that. Man like Popo. All them brothers were deep inside of the movement. Gantrot, Wah and them other man come in afterwards, more as Fari up in the mountains levity.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

What about Ras Man?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ras Man was all part of the movement until he leave and go university. But in the early days he was all part of the movement of I and I. Remember Ras Man was one of the first man and them to go up in the hills. He was more one of them man on the forefront of the struggles for a good while. Remember they had imprison him, all time we were in jail, he was in jail together with I and I for a while. The man escape, and they almost kill him with licks, and things like that then he come back in jail, then after he escape he make a good amount of time in the mountain until eventually he go and study law again, and thing. But him right there among I and I still, you know. Now Kasate come in, Henry Shillingford, I don’t know if you know Kasate?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah, I know Kasate

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

He come in the late hours. But him there still among the man them. That’s why I man looking to go in a DA and work among the man them to get within the roots of everything because…among the levity of Fari you don’t have much man like the man and them in DA when it come to holding the true levity of the life. There’re are some genuine, genuine man them in Da. Like right now, me live out here for a long while but…It hardly have anybody else that experience of living in the hills and wanting to work land on a serious level. Because is 20 years I here and can’t get much leeway because although other man talk and say that is what necessary they don’t really have the living experience of it. So they just back up a talk, but you know, to assist you on a practical form to get you on the land or to back up a movements they serious lacking out there. That is why we a try to raise funds from that Kaddafi Foundation because we tired a call on Rastaman, nobody not willing to back up nothing. You understand and Sellasie I say, without money, a government have no function. So even though we have the ideas and we see the need for things when it come to the movements of the movements, is Rastaman that really have to take up the responsibility of nation building. That is what we really lacking as a people. You see nation building is a responsibility that is where you have to have a certain level of consciousness and commitment to the cause , because a lot of man they just on personal level endeavour and they limiting themselves to that level. That is where you have to recognise as a nation you cannot grow that way. If everyman have to just check a personal vibes, the nation can’t grow. We have to cater for I and I youth that coming up make sure we have the infrastructure to maintain our levity.

Them levels, we tired talk to them man and them who singers, dancers, them tired come here and make promises, natty dread. Come here and making promises. Come here, and me write project proposal to build about 12 classrooms for students in need, and thing like that, and they getting me go to the Ministry of education and talk to every body and get visas to work, and they tell me they holding shows out in the west, and as the show holding they will send me the money and after that you not hearing from nobody for time. You know, and making us look like real fools out there, you understand because they going and you dealing with governmental officials and showing them, yeah you have proposal to assist the youth and then next thing… no fulfilment of the manifestation. That is we have to mature, you see amongst Fari , we immature. In the levity of the mind . You see like His Majesty had a nation building mind? I and I as a people have not yet adopted that mentality, and that have us seriously lacking. Can’t come into Africa short-handed.

DESTROT FRAMED

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

When the time came, when the government formed this plot against you. Can you recall where exactly were you when you where arrest and accused of this crime?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

When I was arrested and thing?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

What happen, my foot had got blown up, remember a bomb had blown up in my foot.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

That as when and where?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

That was in…remember them arrest me… I go in jail in 1974. My case was in November I think. Sometime in March April May or one of them time there, what happen,
my foot had get burned. And after the foot got burned then after this thing happened over the carnival. It was a carnival period this man got shot and during that time there, I was sick also I had fever, I used to suffer from bronchitis. At that time, I used to work in the police station, you overstand. I used to be the votes clerk in the traffic department I was the man receiving all money for licenses and things like that, and at that time I was on sick leave during the carnival period when that man got shot.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

You said that your foot got burned by a bomb explosion?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah, Yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So how did that happen? Where did that happen?
RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

That happen through….remember that Manicou Movements was more like a guerrilla movement. Here were certain things that were being planned and thing, and sometimes things happen other wise. You overs, that is what really happen.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Where were you at that time you said, you were on your job when they came for you?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

No no I was in my yard, [home] at that time I was sick. Remember I told you that my foot had get burned. So after the foot got burned…the thing happened over the carnival time. At the time I was sick at my home from bronchitis and them thing, and a little time after that the foot got burned, and thing like that and while my foot was burned, while I was in my house that is when they come and arrest I thing like that. At first they had pick up my elder brother[ Garner Trotter] and Roy [Mason], and thing like that, and then afterwards, yeah what happen was.. I was on a movements on the road walking with some of the other man them. Remember Doctrove and some of the younger brothers and we were going on a movement and certain things happen then. Somebody put a, plant a weapon in the bucket that I was carrying. The bucket I was carrying , is either that or somebody took my bucket that I was carrying with little food and we say we going up in the mountain for a time and chill, and when we reach at Fond Cole, we stayed there to go check an elder man. So when we reach there we ask every man what is their position, if they have any weapon, and thing like that. Because it don’t make sense to carry thing like that because is on the road we are walk, and you know how Babylon is so just keep calm, and everybody say they clean. So when we leave to walk together and when reach a certain distance we see the Babylon pass us, so I leave to go up the mountain track to just walk a little faster and avoid the main road. So when I see nobody doh come yet I stand up and wait for them. While I waiting on them, I just see the Babylon vehicle come up on I. And when they come up on I, they say they want to search me. So I said no problem. All I have in my bag is stores, but when them search in the bucket them find a weapon, .32 revolver. I don’t know up to this day how this weapon get into that, you understand? I have no idea of that weapon at all. And that is what they use, once they get that weapon now, they show me that they found a gun in the bucket I was carrying and they used that as the pretext to say that is the weapon that shoot the white man, and then they just start to frame it around me.

And then this Antiguan woman, who I never know in my life, never see in my life, the police them force her…she had over stay in Dominica, then the police force her to say she hear me say during the carnival talking to Roy, or somebody like that, “ that I just do a good job, I shoot a white man.” and kind of Talk like that

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay…alright and erm…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well that is how the frame up really come about. That is how they had me. Just the other day I was meditating I should sue the British government because they were complicit in them things. It had to be the British that were behind those kind of things, because even while I was there to hang and everything, when I lose all my appeals from the Privy Counsel, and I just had about 21 days to live because they say I lost the last appeal, a white, a white man come to me twelve a clock in the cell in DA, and he tell me he come straight from the Privy Counsel, he is this and he is that, and if I want to live I must make a sworn statement telling all the brothers to come out from the hills, and give up the struggle, and things like that, and that they will save my life, and those kind of talk, you know. And I tell him best he go and build his gallows because he can’t tell me to say that because they don’t have no right to treat us like that and persecute us like that, and we don’t have no assurance that they will stop treating us like that. But is was the British government that had a direct hand that was involved in this thing. At that time we more…all the papers we were printing and thing we used to be attacking the imperialistic, colonialist empire of the world that were controlling all of us in the Caribbean as African people. Our target point was more America and England so is there involvement in all those things, and Patrick John was just a puppet, you understand?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!…okay.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Remember they had make Patrick John a Grand Master of the Forrester Lodge, you know, the Forrester Lodge is part of the administration of things. You know is that kind of set up that was there at the time.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay…erm.. So what were your experiences up in the prison like after you er..

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

In the prison? In the prison? Oh! The prison come like the middle passage, man! You have no rights, man. Every day them attempting to kill you! The amount of attempts them make on our life on my life in the prison is amazing, man!…They try poison us so many times…

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Like what?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well…they would just try to lick you down. You have to be like gladiators inside the prison..

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay, ..

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Otherwise they would just try to lance upon you and lick you down. And I tell you Mwata I tell you is a rebel man in the struggle. Mwata save a lot of life in the jail through at that time he used to be working in the jail.. Every time they try to exercise certain violence and wickedness upon I and I in and Mwata had to personally come and stand up for I and I. Him save a lot of us in jail, mi ah tell you dread! He see the brutality that they try to …especially one they call skill, and an officer they call Skill, and another one they call Harris. Them was Patrick John main man. Them man was the most wickedest man upon earth. And at the same time when you see your brethren bring fruits endless fruits and thing for you, they would take all your fruits and hold it in their own locker. At one time I stayed about 48 days without any food. Them try to poison us give I some kind of thing to eat and when I eat it ah tell you all my throat would just eat out and mash up, man.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Hmm!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Wah was the main man with I in the jail in them time there, you overs? Wah is the man I make most of the time with in the prison. He is a brother I owe mi life to. Him one of the man dem that really protect I in the jail. Two of us make the five years in the security block until both of us escape together.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Him that preserve I, you know, a lot in the jail. Another tough brother they call Desmond, I don’t know if you remember Desmond, he was big tough brother. He was a Howlings a the time.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

From Kennedy Avenue?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yea, more from River Street. He was the biggest man in Dominica. Tough, muscular and thing like that. Yea a certain during my jail time, when he was inside there…yea! yea! he used to put a protective shield around I.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Until all of us escape because after they pass the Dread Act, and every body was in the jail, it end with a couple of us. There was one particular brother they used to call Masho, who was in jail for chopping up a white man into pieces and burning him, well that brother there. He was in jail. They had condemn him as being insanity. Well he was one of the main man. When we escaped he is the one that really seize the officer, there man and tell us just run and things like that.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

That was in 79, during Hurricane David time?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yea! Yea! After we escape from jail hurricane David pass and mash up the whole of Dominica and the jail, and that is what legalize I and I, yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS
So how the escape really happen? You scaled the wall, or what?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well remember at that time a lot of time when I was in the jail I used to continue writing. That is how Mwata again was crucial. A lot of my writings. I never stop writing. I was constantly writing and editing newspapers at the same time and sending them out with Mwata to be published on the outside. It was during that period of time a lot of consciousness was raising up in the ghettoes. So then everybody had begin to protest against Patrick John because they had expose a plot that he wanted to sell the whole of the north of the country.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

To some Bridgetown mafia man and them, and thing like that. So we had used that to create consciousness and everybody had start to rebel against him. So then everybody had strike, all the civil servants including the prison officers, so it only had about two three of them remain there. So by the second day of the strike when they try to open us up, as I tell you, after they open us up, and they let us stay inside of the block, and let one man go out. But when they open up this one particular brother, Masho, him just grab the officer, and just throw him in the cell and lock him up and tell us just go. .So we just run out from the cell and just run through the gate and go out ’cause no other officers was there. Everybody else was on strike.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right…Excellent! Now, So…erm what happen after that. How was your final release negotiated.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well after I stay there for a little while And as I tell you, with all the kind of chaos, because after that Patrick John had get overthrown, you know, then there was a coalition government that they had set up, you understand?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

It was during that period they ask me to come back to the jail, so I tell them that I cannot come back to the jail because I didn’t do anything to be in jail in the first place.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Brian Alleyne was part of the freedom movement at that time, him and Eugenia Charles, Charles Savarin and them man. Them used my name a lot to get popular among the people, you know, and campaign on my behalf. So like, after the police was part of the government. Brian Alleyne in particular he was the attorney general so then they make an arrangement that I would just come down in the hospital, and rest in the hospital together with the brethren and them. So after that the president would go on the radio. I think it was Jenner Armour at that time

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

And to announce that I had been pardoned, and things like that.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

And that is how it had really negotiate. I stayed there about a night, a day and by the night time yeah, them announce that.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So where were you in the hills? You were hiding in the hills? What areas like you were
hiding in the hills in the meantime?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah, yeah well when I run away from the jail, I was in the mountain. I had go up in the mountain and hide. But through everybody had strike against the government, and the government had been overthrown, there was no direct order to the police to come run me down and thing like that. Their hands was occupied.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS.

Yes because the were concentrating on the overthrow of Patrick John?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah! Yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Because that is when I actually first met you. I think you were at Vivian’s home in Franklyn Lane. That is when I first set eyes on you.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah! Yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

After that it was by Mwata

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah! The other day I was watching a picture of when you was young and then I just remember the I face pretty well, you know.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah! I had my dreadlocks and so …but I myself was persecuted too, you know. I was up in River Clear, and so forth and it was rumoured that…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah ,I remember. You to be close with Mwata?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So…erm, tell me about your early life after you were released, what you did and what was your mission before you left to go to England.
RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

What’s that?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So when you were finally released, what were your first… erm because, I know the government had given you some tools. And I think you went up to Barbier.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

They didn’t give I much tools. At that time Athie Martin was the agriculture minister, so we had negotiate and I think they gave us a bull, or something like that. A cow and bull. They had given us equipment and things like that. We had some negotiations with them and things were at a level. So during that time I had gone up in the hills to try to rebuild myself, and I had also gone to Grenada.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Remember the Grenada revolution, and thing, was just manifesting its self. So at that time I had gone into Grenada to do some work together with Maurice Bishop inside of Grenada among the Rastafarian brethren and them and things like that.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS
And Maurice Bishop was also your lawyer, as well…was one of your lawyers?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah, Maurice Bishop was my lawyer. Yeah, so after the Grenada revolution, he invite me to come across, you understand?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE
So I go over there and do a little work among the Rasta youth for a period of time, and them, and just after that hurricane David had pass in Dominica so when I went over there, mostly, I was more concentrating on sending food back to Dominica, you know, through we had few accidents with LIAT and thing like that , so I more used to concentrate concentrating on gathering food and shipping it out to DA. That was the first movements. I get there and get involved and challenged the revuloting in different movements with Maurice and thing. Yeah! Me go into Grenada twice, and go back to DA and when things get real hot , remember when they had that thing about man had kidnap Honychurch, and them thing like that, and things had get real hot, I slip out I go down to Grenada again, yeah! But when I go there….

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah! Yeah! But I understand you were denied entrance into Trinidad.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah! Yeah! When I was in Grenada I tried to travel into Trinidad and them block me from entering

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

All of that time, what we were trying to do, that was the second time I was in Greneda, we trying to set up a International conference of rastafari in Grenada to solidify the revolution.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

To prevent and imperialstic interventions, and things like that. So we wanted Rastafari to be accepted as the culture of the revolution, you understand?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So as to give I and I an I-nified force. So while I was in transmission to go into Trinidad and declare it to the people of the world, and things like that, you overs? You get it? Multule, Haribela and Shango Bakur, and them other brothers that time, who produce Rastafari speaks

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah! Yeah! Rastafari Speaks

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah! Okay…erm…so then eventually, you decided to go to England why was that?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well them had deport me from Grenada too, you know!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah, okay!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Remember… they deport me just before them had kill Maurice.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Some of the other man them, through the Cuba influence, they didn’t really want to give respect to I and I as Far-I, so that bring me in contention with them. Get in some bitter argument with them people in the People’s Revolutionary Party, you understand?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Because coming and talk to me, a lot of nonsense about prototaliat, and Maxisim and Leninism and thing like that. I tell them all things things were doctrines suitable to industrial Europe. Right now in this black Caribbean we is there, Rastafari emerge as the cultural revolution and the ideology that is motivating people to arise. I tell them that is the age you have to recognise, and it’s we now writing the history. But they still want to maintain their dialoge , you understand, like that them is this and that….Marxist… and.. all kind of stupidness, man. I get in clash with them, especially one they call Bernard Cord-the deputy prime minster.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

And his wife.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

He’s the one that had the counter revolution.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah! Them is the one that eventually kill Maurice because, they used to find why Maurice allowing I so much influence in Contry. Because Maurice come to Dominica, and Maurice see the work we doing in DA, and how we have the ghetto orgainsed on a levels, you understand, so Maurice have us in real high regard. But them other brothers just come from England and them places with the university degree

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Dem man not part of people’s struggle. So you see Maurice and I go into Grenada…I was the only man that could in and out of the Palace, any time, any hour, any day. Maurice had give me full access. The military would bring me up and down, you understand. I was treated as dignitary in the place .

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

With due respect. So them other man them get jealous of that because they see how I reorganise all the Rasta youth and them, and bring them back on a level, because them had ostracise the Rasta youth and them out of the revolutionary process

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So I come back and bring all the man them back and tell Maurice to negotiate everything what ever differences we had. So the levels of respect Maurice had for I so they wanted to break that down..

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

And then they deport me out of Greneda. After they deport me out of Greneda, that is when they kill Maurice.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Because when I was there they couldn’t do it because all the youth …I bring all the Rastaman them back into the palace with Maurice. Everybody had run away because there was an attempt on some of them life, some of them government lives, and thing, because of the way they were dealing with man and man….you understan’

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

What year… what year roughly… was that about? That was like in.. erm…let me see…what year do you think that happened?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

‘81...‘82

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

‘81...’82 …yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Uh!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Yeah

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Alright…and you said…er, why you decided to go to England?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well after that when I return to DA, after me stay in Da for a litle while…well is more throught the persecution

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Of the…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

I went up to the hills. I stay seven years in the mountains

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

During that time in the hills there a lot of war still going on with the police and I and I.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Them coming up in the hills and them runing us down and them a shoot us, and thing like that. Until it reach a stage them come in I land and give a man 30 shots next to me.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Who was that man?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

…and after that… they say is best I move out..

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Who was that man?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Eh?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Who was that man they give 30 shots?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

A brother…next to I … even forget his name now, oui…From Loubiere side,

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Them come up on the land and meet him there. He was one of the man and them that used to move together with Pokosion…

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So through Pokosion was wanted, him and his crew was wanted because…Eugenia Charles body guard them had beat him up in the hills, and deal with him in certain manner. So then they were looking out for them man. So they happen to meet him on my land. So when they meet him on my land they just massacre him in cold blood man!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay!…. And that is when you witnessed that?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

And them man take us and charge us for different things, man. Them man recognise that right now…to survive in DA we have to resort to arms struggle. And after… remember there was an invasion of Dominica? The British, French, Americans..them had come on a military training exercise in Da

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Military forces from all over the Caribbean, and helicopter gun ships and all those things was around. So we realize we couldn’t stand and fight them man on a military level

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

(TO BE CONTINUED)

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

We would have to go and side with Cuba and them kind of thing. And after we see how them operate in Grenada and thing. And we say we cannot trust them man. Those man hate African peoples moral character.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Understand? To me, them look like Henry Morgan and the pirates, the way they live, you understan?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

The man them man used to eat a lot of flesh and swine, and drinl a lot of alchohol and when they finish, they rape anything that pass by, man woman or child. You understand? Or animal or donkey or cat, they don’t mind!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

You see them how they living in Grenada, it was shacking. So that bring me in direct confrontation with them, that is why they really deport me from Grenada , because I start to get in confrontation with them and make me see th at them is not no benefit to I and I as a people. Their culture and thing is abominable and we shouldn't be tolerating them in our presence.and that bring me in direct conflict with them, You understan?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Because the example them man was setting was nothing short of an animal.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So when you reached England what happened? What was your movements in England?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well the move… When I first go England it was for Eric Joseph, you know!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

To bring Eric Joseph case to the Privy Council

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

After he lose his last appeal in the Caribbean Court of Appeal, and they wanted to hang him

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So then, I had to…I was the only one with knowledge of certain things. We had to make it up to England to go lodge an appeal and to use my influence to raise funds to bring his case to the Privy Council.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

That was the first movement I really go up to England and then eventualy to reach into Africa. So I had gone up there and raise up some funds. Then we had lodged the appeal in the Priviy Council.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

After I lodge the appeal in the Privy Council. It take six months to give a judgment. Leave and I go to Zimbabwe. I stay in Zimbabwe for six, seven months. Then after the announce the appeal had been lost, then I returned to England, then returned to Dominica to launch a prerogative of mercy appeal to save his life and thing like that?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE 36:58

And then continue to struggle from then reaching Dominica and England to try different ways and means… until eventually we hear that they pass a law. A brother in…erm… Jamaica win a case where they say that it if you stay more than five years on death row the psychological effects…

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

…Is so detrimental to the human spirit that to hang a man thereafter would be a breech of his human character and dignity, so forth and so fifth. And when they pass that ruling in the Privy Council then we use that., and we go back into Da with that ruling to get them to sentence him to life imprisonment. You overs?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

And take off the death row thing over his head.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

And we continue after that to continue to write letters and…I even have a copy of a letter, I’ll ask Kasate to send it to the I

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

We we had write on his behalf to the people and government to let him go after ninety days!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

You know he’s been released now?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yes! Yes!…erm

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

You know when the foreign minister come that is one of the fist thing he come and tell I.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!…Yeah…erm. So…erm…so, you decided to go Ethiopia. How did that happen.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Well after I stay in Zimbabwe a little while, through natural inclinations, through Emperor Haile Sellassie I say let me go and see what Ethiopia is as the history and birthplace of all civilization

RAS ALBERT WILIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

It was fundamental that I get the history and the knowledge of what was going on. So when I first come here …When I first come here I come in Shashemane. When I sense it out, I didn’t meet no Rastaman here. I meet some Twelve Tribes man and dem, but none of them man upholding the levity of Fari as I and I know it in Da.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

So when I first come here it was in about ‘91..When I…when I ..see that it hit in I when first come here. Then after that I say wow!!! I’ll have to come forward here again. I come back here again in 91 and sus it out again. See the same situation and ting. Then after that in ’92..when I come back in ’92 I just decide I naa go back no more.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE (39:06)

I just stick out there and try and preserve the little land that remain with the elders that was there on the land…

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So… who the elders were?Like Gladstone Robinson and others that you met there.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Papa Dyer…Papa Baugh and brother Breen, those were the elders from Jamaica.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

So, me just stay and them defend their land fence up the area…

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

So they help you settle in?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Ah?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

They helped you to settle in and so?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Yeah! Yeah! because them had land, certain land that was being worked. So I just take over some of the lands where they were contending among them selves..

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

And I show them, where we come from, we don’t talk about land we just work, it. So I just start to work it and things like that and through that I end with a piece of land like…right now they trying to cut it up so I have to try different ways and means to preserve it and do different things on it., You know. But right now it reach a stage where Far-I have to get a little more mobile. Because I’s been here too long stagnant, You know?

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

And the movement of the man around me is not complimentary to the movements that I and I suppose to be upon.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

I try stimulate them into certain directions. Certain ways that we can allow certain movements to on a check what is what. At the same time we need to try and mobilize more of the brothers and them in Da and how we can move as a people and…
RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah, Well is…is…is the, is the foundation they maybe haven’t got the grassroots foundation, the political consciousness, and the networking and groundation that we have, you know?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Yeah!

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

In actually organizing things and dealing with Babylon on their terms, and negotiating, you know, and being forthright. They maybe haven't got that…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Yea you see that is it, that is it, We have to set up that level of representation

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

WE have to set up those levels of representation

RAS ALABERT WILLIAMS

Yeah!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

The elders have to make claim for what is rightfully ours, you understan’ can’t be afraid to make claim and learn to work together to build up industry and learn how to run business also

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

You understan’ We have to adopt a business mind is the next crucial thing. We have to set up industries, agro industries that are actually functional and running and profitabl.
RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

These are the levels we have to bring ourselves to. It is them stages we to get into now. Right now, the younger generation who coming we have to see that youth are geared to carry on the struggle, right now.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Some of us getting battered. Right now, is battered, we battered. You know? For the amount of years we here, and most times me on me own a-work, You understand’

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Can hardly get a next Rastaman to help till the field

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

I have to pay Ethiopian workers to work with I, you understan’

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

You see like a place like in Da now, you go in the mountain, every man there with you

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS
Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

You overs? So you have a balance. But here is like is continuous strain.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay… So you…you…sell your crops and so? What crops…what crops you have right now dealing with.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Right now is mostly vegetables me have in the ground, eh!. The dry season coming in and so the dry season a kill out every thing now.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

But for the last two months me have carrot, beets, cabbage, cauliflower, brocoli, spinach, you know, potatoe those crops there, you know…those crops there.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right. You've been sending me some emails about what’s happening with you and the government. How far are you on that struggle now? What’s the latest on that

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

Well right now, right now, I get the local authority. You see it have a Kabala in every municipality

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE (42:32)

This kabala is the local city administration. The Kabala is a sub city administration. So I get the city administration to write to the sub city administration to tell them stop playing around my yard, you understand. Because is they personally have to deal with my case. You understand, because. I have a file there were my markings were set from before, and the brother that had first come to do those markings, through the power of Sellassie, just Friday they appoint him as head of the technical department

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

So they tell me, just hold on, he just put my file in place there and he will come deal with I in time. I have no fear because he knows exactly what is what.You know. Nobody can influence him otherwise. So he is a youth that really grow under I and I hand. He’s one of them youth that I help send to school and things like that so, I just pray Sellassie that he will hold the spirit, you know.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay, so…let me, in wrapping up

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

…Well at the same time

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

What were going to say?

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELASSIE

No I just saying well, like, we still see a little problems around those things, but like how we seeing it now is to just go to the government. We just go Meles Zenawi and go to the president. You see where we live here is the Omoromia regional state, so it is a regional government that is based…the central government is based in Addis Ababa, you understand. They is the largest population in Ethiopia.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So it have a Oromo regional state, it have a Tigre regional state, it have a southern national and peoples regional state, it have Camberra . Every regional state have a government

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah.

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So like in our area, the regional government is the one directly responsible for anything about the land in the area.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

So we have to go to see the president of Omoro state. So then we need to go and see President Zenawi concerning our citizenship, and his consideration of granting us land. Making lands available to I and I so that they can classify us as a nationality. Cause Ethiopia have 80 nationalities within the constitution of Ethiopia, that is how you clasify. So right now we trying to approach them to classify as a nationality and a people, so that we have recognition and citizenship rights so that we can live as ordinary Ethiopians to derive the benefits of the systems

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay…alright…So what message do you gave for Rastaman in the West, in Dominica,
and out there in Babylon? What’s the vision that you would like to share with ones and ones that may hear this interview…

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Well is for I and I to get up and stand up, dread…Africa…Africa awaits its creation in its creators. We cannot choose an island and give up a continent. Everything is here in Africa man! They make it hard and difficult for you, because they don’t want us to conquor, you understan’

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

Every thing is right here. We can achieve everything and more and ten times over. Is just we have to be come a united force, and we have to be more powerful in governmental representation and focus more on the concept of nation building in the practical sense how we can get those things done and we can get those things into fulfilment. What representation we have to make, What capital we have to raise, the ways and the means. The claims for reparations and them different things. We have to specific to them that the knowledge and the intellect we have to certain things that we can present to governments of the world who enslaved us whereby they could be forced to consider to give us funding to initiate certain agro industries or certain agricultural farming programs, to set up factories, like ceramic factories, oil pressing factories, or sugar factories. This is the way I view that we can approach these governments to get reparation with programs of nation building tell them well listen, the I them don’t like the word reparations but this how we as a people tell them you are responsible for bringing us out here, and now we want to come back here.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

…And we need certain infrastructural set for I and I, and these are some of the ideas that we want to you set money aside to deal with those things. Whether we can do those approaches, or whether we can do it among I and I selves, we just have to raise it.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay!

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

…any or any how but this is the hour and this is the time. You know this not a talk it’s a work. You understan’ so we have to committ our selves to the work. To gird our loins as King David say, make our heart strong. There is trial and tribulation along the way, but in those days we just have to laught at that…

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Okay

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

The work we have to do is the fulfillment of prophecy, so we have to know our selves, and stick to our roots, and don’t follow the ways of the Babylon them and just know that we have to create an African people using the resources that we have. Everything is natural in creation.

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Right

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

That is what I am showing the man them. We just have to hold up our selves for what we are. Our foundations is what I and I is. You understan’

RAS ALBERT WILLIAMS

Yeah

RAS KABINDA HABRE SELLASSIE

And we have to come and manifest those things upon the continent. All time we don’t manifest ourselves on the continent…the struggle…it don’t even start yet. Because that is where the first stage is. We have to break that cycle of enslavement and colonialism and what have you. To be able to come home and re-establish ourselves on the mother land.