Fornication

[out_of_Zion]

preach -

It has nothing to do with what people think, preach.  

What does JAH think?

"What peace could there be as long as there are the fornications of Jezebel your mother and her many sourceries?"  -2 Kings 9:22 (partial)

Jezebel was wicked living incarnate as the whore opposed to Jehovah.  And how did she mislead people?  With immoral sex.  

"Now the body is not for fonication, but for the Lord and Lord for the body."  -1 Cor 6:13 (partial)

& what happens to those that fornicate?

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and thsoe are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct...spiritism...anger...drunken bouts...and things like these...THOSE WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS WILL NOT INHERIT GOD'S KINGDOM."  -Gal 5:19, 21 (partial)

Don't get angry at Jah Jah for your own lack of regulation.  It's a constant battle, fighting the flesh and using treating the body as a temple (1 Cor 3:16) and sanctifying it, but he does not ask more of us than we are able to accomplish.  It's a matter of will though and realizing these laws did not come from "some people" as you alledge, but from our Grand Creator who cares about us and wants us to be happy.  Sex is partly for pleasure, but it will be a lot more pleasure able with a life partner when you're not worrying about diseases, unwanted pregnancies, and emotional duress.

Blessings.

[Nazarite]

who the cap fits,LET THEM WEAR IT.Empress menen had children already during her marriage with selassie I,was that wrong?some have ONE wife,some have SIX,SEVEN,its ALL ABOUT LOVE!,and not ONLY the Carnal part,these days men and wombman look for the size of the Genitilia of peers or how big their butt is,but after their intercourse,their OUT THE DOOR.

[out_of_Zion]

People can do WHATEVER they want, they are just going to be accountable before Almighty Jah at the judgment.  And he's a just judge.  INI will never tell anyone to stop what they're doing; I'll point a scripture out, show them what Jah think and it's up to them as to whether they adjust their actions or not.

[Tyehimba]

I'll point a scripture out, show them what Jah think

Many don't consider  the bible as what 'Jah think'.

[out_of_Zion]

Pity for them they reject the loving inspired letter of our heavenly Father.

"Let them be.  Blind guides is what they are.  If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."  -Matthew 15:13

[Oshun_Auset]

Pity for them they reject the loving inspired letter of our heavenly Father.

"Let them be.  Blind guides is what they are.  If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."  -Matthew 15:13

So are you saying all those that don't follow the Helio Biblio(Sun Book) as the word of God...and those that follow the more ancient teachings DIRECTLY from our African ancestors...instead of the much manipulated(by our oppressor I might add) Helio Biblio are "blind"?...Sounds like someone else may be closing their eyes... :-/

Mo fi sin Olorun.

My ancestors did not, nor do I need to be "saved" by colonialism and slavery. Which is the only reason WE have the Bible.

[Oshun_Auset]

I forwarded this thread to a friend of mine from Zim...The response he gave was interesting and I felt it needed posting, and I am looking forward to responses on the matter...

"The references to the bible in the Fornication subject by some members is ridiculous. If we know the bible is the word used by the oppressor. Anything out of it is subject to scrutiny. What is the African cultural view on fornication? Before the bible we had ideologies that guided
our peoples. Culture controlled the essece of life(sic).Any quotes from the bible would be an abomonation of our cultural beliefs as a people. Lets quote from the teachings of our ancestors!!!!"


My further comments....

And as for the constant foreign(Biblical) refference to the reverance of the Goddess or the Devine Feminine by African traditional matriarchial peoples/cultures(and others) as Whores and Harlotts(the people are also often referred to as idoloters)....

"Black theology of liberation that is relevant to (South)Africa cannot afford to perpetuate any form of domination, not even male domination; if its liberation is not human enough to include the liberation of women, it will not be liberation."

This means spiritual domination also. Since as the Akan saying goes...

Nsem nyina ne Onyame ("all things/affairs pertain to God")

(By the way the majority 90% of the people who are in Jamaica come directly from the Akan) Should they not return to their roots?

Mo fi sin Olorun. (I do it in the service of God).-Yoruba

My ancestors did not, nor do I need to be "saved" by colonialism and slavery. Which is the only reason WE have the Bible.

[preach]

out of zion, what exactly do you think? Do you have your own views or must your thoughts all come from the bible? I am not trying to attack you, I would just like to know if your personal views conflict with those of the bible and to stay in accordance you adopt those views? I ask this because some people are so influenced by the majority, their religion, or motivated by fear that they hardly entertain their own thoughts.

[out_of_Zion]

Back the misinterpretation train up.  Look who I was responding to and what I was responding to.

Tyehimba said that not all people accept the Bible as "Jah word."  Well, if you're going to worship JEHOVAH GOD, that is his method of communication.

If you're going to worship Allah, read the Qur'an.
If you're going to worship a multitude of Hindu gods and goddesses, the Rig Veda, Baghva Gita...
And so on...

SO, I was saying if people are going to claim to worship Jah and then not obey his rules, then those particular people, as CHRISTIANS, are blind guides.  Understand?

OK: now individually:

Oshun_Auset - What is the traditional African view specifically regarding sexual relations between unmarried men and women?  Solo curiousity.

preach - INI do have my own thoughts, and my thoughts are that I am going to let Jehovah God determine what moral standards INI live by.  Do I find it challenging at times to maintain chastity as I have reformed myself and await a marriage mate?  Of course.  I'm human.  But I respect my Creator's right to set the laws for my body.  Anything less is sheer hypocrisy.  And hypocrisy is the driving force disgusting many from coming to hear the light of Yeshua's gospel message because the people that have promoted it have been hypocritical NON CHRISTIANS.  It's my (and indeed every witness of Jehovah's) responsibility to be different and prove ourselves to be the faithful witnesses we are, doing our utmost to not bring reproach upon his holy name.

[Oshun_Auset]

Oshun_Auset - What is the traditional African view specifically regarding sexual relations between unmarried men and women?  Solo curiousity.

Well I can't answer for the whole continent, every ethnic group has different norms but I can answer for the traditional practice of the Yoruba from Nigeria(Ifa) that I follow.

Ifa is about life, our whole life, and sexual activity, expression and desire are a significant part of that.

For the most part, the views of Lucumi, Santeria, Voodun and an increasing number of Ifa Devotees reflect their Christian/Judea cultural indoctrination rather than the views, attitudes and observations of the wise men and women of ancient Africa.

Sexual activity, resulting in orgasm, provides individuals with a profound energy experience. The operative Creative Force that designed the logical Universe we live in, programmed us to be able to achieve this beneficial experience as a way of balancing the stress and tribulations of our everyday life. Olorun also assured that, through our desire to achieve this state, the continuation of our species was guaranteed. It is logical.

Organized Religions, from Judaism to Christianity recognized the power of this transcendent experience and, wanting to be the sole arbiters, and controllers, of our ability to reach ecstasy, or transcendence, sought to take control of this most Natural act. Some said it was 'dirty', others that it was only to be experienced when creating a child, and not simply for pleasure. Yet, every one of their conclusions was illogical and in contraction to the simple facts.

For example, if the Creative Force had wanted orgasmic sexual activity to be experienced only for the creation of a child, why didn't Olorun design us to stop feeling pleasure once our child bearing years had ceased?

On the contrary, sexual activity is designed for a host of positive purposes. It is the most intimate sharing of our most intense personal energy. And, it is in this reality that the reasons for the prohibition of sexual activity in front of the Orisha is created.

When we offer ebbo to the Orisha we are using the energy of the offering to form a triangulation between the energy of Nature (Orisha) and ourselves. The intense energy of sexual expression in front of the shrines of the Orisha too easily becomes part of an unintended triangulation (ebbo) with the energies present. So therefore we must keep our shrines to the Orisha outside of the bedroom or never perform a sexual act in front of the shrine. It is logic, not Divine prohibition, that always should guide our actions.

Despite the obvious issues of AIDS and other diseases, it is essential to keep in mind that this sharing of our ashe, through bodily fluids and pure energy, is the most intimate and intense experience we can have with another human being. To try and separate this physical reality, from the intellectual reality of the character and values of the individual we share with, is a recipe for disaster. In the peculiar way the West always breaks things into separate pieces, their ability to make sexual experience a stand-alone experience is inherently destructive. Indeed, it is this attitude that leads to rape, pedophilias, and sexual slavery. Remember, you want to share this energy with positive energy, and the ashe of the person with bad character will gladly take your positive energy in trade for their negative if you focus on only the physial act rather than the total person.

In traditional Africa, someone you pro-created with was your wife/husband...I actually deal with this difference in title in the West frequently. Many of my friends from the continent who have what in the West would be labelled as a baby's-mother/baby's-father, is referred to as the person's wife or husband. The distinction is not so readily made via a state marriage but is more in line with personal commitments to one another. This has changed significantly and is still changing more with the advent of Westernization and the Judeo-Christian-Muslim influenced definitions of such intimate relationships....

As for the traditional views on this with my friend from Zimbabwe(Shona peoples)...I will post that when he responds.

[out_of_Zion]

Interesting food for thought.  However, I would like to point out the idea of a "sex only for procreation" idea is extrabiblical.  Paul even wrote "do not be depriving each other except for an appointed time that the devil may rule over you for your lack of self-regulation."  - that is, he was saying as long as you have control over your pleasure seeking and it does not have control over you, that it was OK.  Still, this was balanced within the marriage arrangement.

INI personally feel that a big obstacle in all of this is just that, the marriage arrangement.  Marriage should be taken very seriously, but the problem is we begin to awaken sexually as early as 10 and do not marry until over twice that age (even 3x), which creates QUITE A HUGE window that one is expected to maintain chastity.  It's obviously not impossible, but needless to say, very few are able to do it.  Then guilt is the result, which is obviously counter-productive to one's spirituality when experienced in excess.

Thank you for educating me a little on traditional Afrikan views.

[Oshun_Auset]

Well I can't answer for the whole continent, every ethnic group has different norms but I can answer for the traditional practice of the Yoruba from Nigeria(Ifa) that I follow.

Correction. The Yoruba are largely in Nigeria, but pre-colonial Yorubaland also encompassed parts of Benin, and Sierre Leone, of course, many of us stolen Africans brought over during the slave trade are Yoruba also.

[Ras_Legacy]

Hmmm...doesn't having sexual relations with multiple partners cheapen the spiritual meaning of sexual intercourse? I was brought up with the beliefs that having sex with another person means bonding-the whole process of marriage, commitment-becoming one with that other person. If one has sexual intercourse with more than one person, and feel bonded, what happens to that bond when those people break and split? is that bond broken? what happens to becoming one under JAH? is that only for a short time? Maybe the InI can clarify for the i?

[Empress_Zauditu_Ariel-YAH]

Greetings,
Ras_Legacy, that is what I wonder also.
Yes it is hard not to give into sexual temptation and yearnings at times, but I believe that sex is the joining of man and woman back into one being.  The physical joining transcends into spiritual joining under the powers YAH.
One medical doctor from Nigeria once told me that it blew his mind when he learned that if under normal conditions the human body's heart was to beat as fast as it does when climax is reached, then it would combust!  Now, no one can't tell me that that is not YAH's hand keeping things in order!
However, if you do not look at sex as being spiritual and involving YAH, then other guidelines (possibly less stringent) will probably apply.
MISGANA!

[athalyah]

I believe strongly in the Scriptures but who is the rightful person to sanction a marriage;marriage is a stae of mind. If the two people love each other and the emotional and mental is shared strongly and they want to take that step to join in the physical; no one can judge there love and what they feel. Marriage is in the mind and heart and if your committed to one person despite a sign paper given to u by the system; no one can take that away.