Colorism: The paper bag test

[Ayinde]

I didn't see your entire post as negative....mainly the phrase I pointed out "this means nothing to me"...Please don't placate me, I don't need it. But "nothing" is a very dissmissive term for anyone to use about what anything anyone says/posts IMHO.

So do you think light skinned African/Black people suffer greater oppression(not meaning the exploitation everyone gets including European/Whites) in comparrison with European/Wites under this system? In your experience have you ever known or witnessed anyone that is an acception to the rule of any of the generalizatios made on this thread about dark and light African peoples?

Well if a statement is used repeatedly like "Africans should organize", and the people who are making it are not spelling out the nature of this organization in a way that really addresses the problem, then I find the statement to be meaningless when it comes from them.

I am also sufficiently aware of European history to make the argument that some White Jews and other European groups were oppressed. Of course, you know I do not mean the long span of oppression like what dark-skinned Africans continually suffer. I know mixed-race, light-skinned ones are also oppressed, and in a general context it is not the same as what is experienced by dark-skinned kinky-hair Africans.

I am dealing with Colourism in its general context, and I am not specifically looking for exceptions to the general conduct. To prove that some one is an exception to what I know to be generally true, I would have to personally know the individual. In absence of that, in my view, the generalization stands.

[Bantu_Kelani]

Oshun Auset, the black Africans that come form the CONTINENT you know (including me) are not the typical African people whom have a great sense of disconnection to Africa because of media and scholarly propaganda about our history and traditions. You said it yourself, the native Africans form your political party are programmed with a revolutionary Pan-African ideology, and those people are not the ones absorbed into the western mindset to fall victims or to easily harbor self-hatred of their blackness, which makes it easier to castigate and disregard their African civilizations, murder and exploit their own brothers. These are heart-wrenching statements for me to say. But, this is reality. I can't ignore these facts in the broader context. So to be right on target, we should have a face-off with reality.  

B.K

[preach]

I was involved in a group that did improvisational performances and the theme of one show was stereotypes. Everyone involved were of different ethnicities, races, etc.. During our first rehearsal the floor was open for anyone who wanted to share stereotypes they personally believed or had heard. We all considered ourselves friends and some of the comments were hurtful but the ultimate good was the floor was open for discussion, and through the pain we learned alot about each other and had a successful show. This may sound idealistic but it did serve a purpose. Again I openly challenge anyone who personally has a problem with someone of a different complexion to express themselves. Hypothetically, maybe Ayinde being dark skinned is jealous of the light skinned africaspeaks members; or maybe someone of mixed race secretly would like to be darker. Who knows?

[Bantu_Kelani]

Hypothetically, maybe Ayinde being dark skinned is jealous of the light skinned africaspeaks members;

Your haste to pretend you know Ayinde is pitifully stupid. Frankly, your push to lay blame on Ayinde or any dark-skinned one is a convenient tactic. For you it's an emotional escapism as a defense mechanism. I can see you neither have the ability to grasp the obvious nor the audacity to be honest yourself. And we are supposed to debate you? Sure, right!

B.K

[preach]

B.K. you hastily assumed that I was of mixed race and light complected earlier in one of your responses. You hastily made a comment in your attempts to challenge me. Perhaps you should keep a dictionary handy because hypothetical means supposed but not necessarily real or true. Sometimes creating scenarios is useful when attacking a problem. I could replace Ayinde with any name, would you feel more comfortable if I would've said bartholomew.  If you are really trying to debate beloved maybe you should refer back to my previous post and tell me why my suggestion will not work. Also what would you like me to be honest about.

[Ayinde]

I have not seen where any of my posts here can be viewed as coming from jealousy.  I think if you are bringing that up you should spell out your own argument. It appears your hypothesis was meant to solicit a reactionary response to simply match wit, rather than to seriously engage the debate. Using my name although you said you could have easily used any name, meant that was a calculated attack that was meant to solicit a defensive reaction.

You have not really shared any serious views on the subject. I think it is better you give your views and ideas on the issue, if you have any, instead of stalking the board and trying to antagonize others.

[preach]

 Yall some conspiracy brothers and sisters. In one of my earlier posts I  gave a personal account of how my former group and I handled a situation. I did this instead of singing to the choir.

There are several isms; class -ism, sexism, racism, age-ism, and the ism we are addressing, colorism. What differenciates the latter is the fact that the ism occurs amongst a group of peers. Sexism is male verses female, racism is one race verses another race, classism is the proletariat verses the bourgeoise, and ageism is the young verses the old. Colorism in this case is black verses black. Besides the obvious discrepancies the problem is that the original protagonists are let off the hook and now trouble is stirred in house. In other words the focus is shift and in a situation where we should be working together we are now seperate. The religious folks say that the devil is busy. I say a job well done further seperation of the masses. Then a new phenomenon is create, colorist - people who have resentment, or in extremities become jealous of brethren of a different shade. Jealousy here means fiercely protective of ones own ideas, feelings or views to a point where others feelings, ideas or views are disregarded all for the sake of protecting the union: sound familiar. We who consider ouselves brethren should be more compassionate and remember that both the light and dark skinned have suffered. Believe it or not we are our worst enemies.  

[Tyehimba]

Besides the obvious discrepancies the problem is that the original protagonists are let off the hook and now trouble is stirred in house. In other words the focus is shift and in a situation where we should be working together we are now seperate. The religious folks say that the devil is busy. I say a job well done further separation of the masses.

You sound like one of those defensive Whites who argue that racism should not be discussed or dealt with because 'it is dividing the human race'. Colorism is not 'letting the original protaganists off the hook' as you say becuause it is intimately tied to the dynamics of racism. It is a situation where Blacks themselves has internalized bogus ideas/racism and applied it to their interactions with fellow Blacks. Light/brown skinned African are particularly guilty of this, and it runs so deep that denial of this, is very similar to Whites denying their conditioned superiority complex.

This issue of Colourism is very important, because it gives the order for justice and redress.

[Ayinde]

"Light/brown skinned African are particularly guilty of this"

For Colorism to exist in Black communities (and it does), both light-skinned and dark-skinned Blacks would have had to internalize the same false values. So it is both sides that have to make adjustments. The issue is that few consider it, and therefore most light-skinned and dark-skinned ones unconsciously support it.

I feel people can appreciate that women should check the views and reactions of males on gender issues before trusting them. The same should apply in relation to Colorism, and all other negative discriminations. More informed ones could easily see the validity in checking the views and reactions of whites on the issues of racism and white privileges before trusting them.

Those who are more aware and make attitude adjustments in relation to the many social issues would obviously be better people.

[preach]

Greetings. I am in total agreeance that colorism is intimately tied to the dynamics of race.  But,we do ourselves no justice by not getting to the route of this phenomenon. We blame each other and not the horse breaking in system that set it in motion. Yes adjustments need to be made but none will be if we steady feed into ideas like light/brown skinned folks are better leaders, more intelligent, less or more victimized, internalized more bogus ideas, and vice versa. Tyehimba some of us have that same superiority complex that you say white folks have.