How to get to heaven when you die

[Bantu_Kelani]

If the KKK is Christian, then you must be because they are almost as hateful as you are.  Maybe you should actually read the bible for yourself before you lump every religious faith into one basket.  You clearly don't have an understanding of the God of the bible, Christianity, or the bible.  You can't back up anything with scripture except some stray scripture that you pull out of the air.  That is the way that false teachers such as yourself work.  

It appears as though yours is a God of hate.  It is precisely men like you who seek to hold down the african community by propetuating hatred, constantly digging up the past and never moving forward.

I can tell by your opinion YOU ARE NOT A BLACK PERSON, you don’t have the guts to say WHAT and WHO you are! You are a perfect example of someone who comes to oppress and exploit black folks with bible fables and falsities! I don’t have to deduce your race I am judging you with your European belief systems which are the most prejudicial I ever have seen! I don’t have time to draw scriptures form your poisonous book the bible, I already exposed the intolerance of Christians and Christianity and I’m talking from common sense! You serve no useful purpose in this BLACK AFRICAN website if I still was a moderator here I will ban you!

And be aware informed blacks are not HATEFUL we are just defensive, in fact it's the CURRENT White Supremacists, many of whom are CHRISTIANS, who worship racism and religious bigotry directed against black African peoples to rob our natural resources!!!!

..tata Jemba, I’m not mad at you but know sista Oshun Auset and I know this type of pathetic drivel always join BLACK AFRICAN message boards to put our peoples in full ignorance mode. They are racist troublemakers and they are not welcomed here, no respect to them!

Peace.

B.K

[Bantu_Kelani]

What the heck I couldn’t resist to show this deluded individual XFRODOBAGGINSX how really EVIL, BLOOD THIRSTY, MASTER OF DECEPTION, AND A LIAR his god YAWEH/JEHOVA is! But like most Christians he is too lazy or mentally challenged to read and study for himself.  

These scriptures were taken randomly by me just like his!

Exodus 22:29 “Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.”

Ezekiel 20:25-26 “Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good and judgments whereby they should not live; “
20:26 “And I polluted them in their own gifts in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.”

II Samuel 21.
21:6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib’e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.
21:9 And he delivered them into the hands of the Gib’e-on-ites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.
21:10 And Riz’pah the daughter of A-i’ah took sackcloth, and spread it for her upon the rock, from the beginning of harvest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest on them by day, nor the beasts of the field by night.

Here we read 7 men being murdered in cold blood in order to appease JEHOVA in hopes that HE will end a famine, it’s called human blood sacrifice!!!

More blood sacrifice:

Numbers 31:25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
31:26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
31:27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
31:30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
31:31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
31:32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
31:33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
31:36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
31:37 And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
31:38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.
31:39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.
31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.

This excerp was taken from "The Handbook of Jewish Knowledge" by Nathan Ausubel; pages 302-303.

I am not Christian, or Musilm, or Jew, these imperialistic religions are detrimental to black Africans. It bothers me to respect these verses and messages (garbage) this is not our indigenous African heritage no!!!!

B.K

[jemba]

Kimia yaya kelani

Tata!!! Na bota nanu bana te [

Genesis 9: 20 to 24

And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyards. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And ham the father of canaan, saw him the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But shem and Japhteth took a garment, laid it on both there shoulders, and went backwards and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces where turned away, and they did not see their fathers nakedness. So when Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him.
Then he said: Cursed be Canaan a servant of servants he shall be to his brethrens. Blessed be the lord of Shem, and may Canaan be his servant may god enlarge Japheth, and may Canaan be his servant.

Genesis 10:6 to 11

The sons of ham where Kush, Mizraim, Put, Canaan. The sons of Kush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan.  Cush begat Nimrod; he began to be a mighty man one on earth. He was a mighty hunter before the lord. And the beginning of his kingdom was babel, erech accad, and calneh, in the land of shiner. From that land he went to Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, calah, and resen between Nineveh and calah.

Ham and his descendent settled in Africa, Egypt which is now Jordan and Israel.
The land of shiner and Assyria were located east of Israel in what is now iraq.

This is as racist as it gets afrikans where borne to be slaves because ham who supposed to be our ancestor saw, Noah his father naked. The god of this scripture should have punished Noah for getting drunk, Noah is a very holy man indeed or is the Romans bibles god the devil himself.

Genesis 11: 1 to 9

Now the whole earth had one language and speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of shiner, and they dwelt there. Then they said to one another (come let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly).
They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. And they said (come let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heaven; let us make s name fo our selves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth)
But the lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
And the lord said (indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. Come let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech).

And you should know the rest Frodo Baggins there is only one angel who was cast down from heaven with his friends in the roman scriptures and he is your lord, god doesn’t need help to confuse a bunch of people. And these people again supposed to be Nubians settling in a new land, your god sure is a loving god only to his people.
I don’t even believe for a second in this fantasy story that these people could be Nubians but I believe that the person who says (Come let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech).
Is a devil.

Please read the bible for your self@ frodobaggins

[Bantu_Kelani]

Kimia yaya kelani

Tata!!! Na bota nanu bana te [

tata ezoloba oza mutu munene, pe oyebi eloko mingi! (I use "tata" to be correct about your position, you are a respectable black man).

Please read the bible for your self@ frodobaggins

You gave XFRODOBAGGINSX the scriptures he needs, now let's see how he will debate that LOL...

B.K

[jemba]

Kool  [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]everyone should get an overstanding of the bible
its the tool the europeans used to lock up nubian minds

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

What the heck I couldn’t resist to show this deluded individual XFRODOBAGGINSX how really EVIL, BLOOD THIRSTY, MASTER OF DECEPTION, AND A LIAR his god YAWEH/JEHOVA is! But like most Christians he is too lazy or mentally challenged to read and study for himself.  

These scriptures were taken randomly by me just like his!

Exodus 22:29 “Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.”

Ezekiel 20:25-26 “Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good and judgments whereby they should not live; “
20:26 “And I polluted them in their own gifts in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.”

II Samuel 21.
21:6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib’e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.
21:9 And he delivered them into the hands of the Gib’e-on-ites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of barley harvest.
21:10 And Riz’pah the daughter of A-i’ah took sackcloth, and spread it for her upon the rock, from the beginning of harvest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest on them by day, nor the beasts of the field by night.

Here we read 7 men being murdered in cold blood in order to appease JEHOVA in hopes that HE will end a famine, it’s called human blood sacrifice!!!

More blood sacrifice:

Numbers 31:25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
31:26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
31:27 And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation:
31:28 And levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep:
31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
31:30 And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.
31:31 And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
31:32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,
31:33 And threescore and twelve thousand beeves,
31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,
31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
31:36 And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep:
31:37 And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
31:38 And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve.
31:39 And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one.
31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons.

This excerp was taken from "The Handbook of Jewish Knowledge" by Nathan Ausubel; pages 302-303.

I am not Christian, or Musilm, or Jew, these imperialistic religions are detrimental to black Africans. It bothers me to respect these verses and messages (garbage) this is not our indigenous African heritage no!!!!

B.K

First of all:

Exodus 22:29 “Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.”

He wasn't talking about killing the children, He was talking about giving them to service for the Lord.  

Secondly:

21:6 Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord in Gib’e-ah of Saul, whom the Lord did choose.

This was a time of law in the land.  The men that were hanged were false ministers such as yourself and at that time, the punishment was death.  We are no longer under the law, but are under grace.  This is no longer required of false ministers such as yourself, so that can may demonstrate His grace.  

The rest of what you wrote seemed to be without point.  The other than to take up space.  The only comment that I will add is that they sacrificed animals before Jesus Christ came to die for our sins, as a symbol of Christ's death for us.  Now that Jesus Christ has come for all men, animal sacrifice is no longer needed.

This verse is speaking of Christ:

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

You keep labeling Christianity as a White religion or not African.  This is also untrue.  Christianity is not white nor is it black, it originated with the Jews, who lived extremely close to Africa.  God loves the black man and the white man.  Christ is not sent for one race, but for ALL RACES to come to Him for salvation.  You can follow a lie or you can follow the truth.  Jesus Christ is the truth.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(KJV)


You cannot get to heaven any other way.  All other ways lead to hell, which is eternal damnation.  Eternal torment in fire.

Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend}
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mt 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

To all beloved Africans who would:

Accept Jesus Christ into your heart today and become a child of the true and living God.  He created all men black and white and all others.  God loves you and wants to save you and take you to heaven.  As children of God, you will share in eternal blessings with God as the bride of Christ.  There is no higher honor that I know of.  If you reject His Son, the punishment is hell.  That is the truth for everyone, black, white or any other race.  This is not about race, it is about Christ Jesus.  I am begging you to pray the prayer to God at the beginning of this post, mean it with all of your heart.  He will come into your life and give you peace and joy that you will never have otherwise, and He will take you to heaven with Him when you die.  

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

Kimia yaya kelani

Tata!!! Na bota nanu bana te [

Genesis 9: 20 to 24

And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyards. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. And ham the father of canaan, saw him the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside. But shem and Japhteth took a garment, laid it on both there shoulders, and went backwards and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces where turned away, and they did not see their fathers nakedness. So when Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done to him.
Then he said: Cursed be Canaan a servant of servants he shall be to his brethrens. Blessed be the lord of Shem, and may Canaan be his servant may god enlarge Japheth, and may Canaan be his servant.

Genesis 10:6 to 11

The sons of ham where Kush, Mizraim, Put, Canaan. The sons of Kush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan.  Cush begat Nimrod; he began to be a mighty man one on earth. He was a mighty hunter before the lord. And the beginning of his kingdom was babel, erech accad, and calneh, in the land of shiner. From that land he went to Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, calah, and resen between Nineveh and calah.

Ham and his descendent settled in Africa, Egypt which is now Jordan and Israel.
The land of shiner and Assyria were located east of Israel in what is now iraq.

This is as racist as it gets afrikans where borne to be slaves because ham who supposed to be our ancestor saw, Noah his father naked. The god of this scripture should have punished Noah for getting drunk, Noah is a very holy man indeed or is the Romans bibles god the devil himself.

Genesis 11: 1 to 9

Now the whole earth had one language and speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of shiner, and they dwelt there. Then they said to one another (come let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly).
They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. And they said (come let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heaven; let us make s name fo our selves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth)
But the lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
And the lord said (indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. Come let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech).

And you should know the rest Frodo Baggins there is only one angel who was cast down from heaven with his friends in the roman scriptures and he is your lord, god doesn’t need help to confuse a bunch of people. And these people again supposed to be Nubians settling in a new land, your god sure is a loving god only to his people.
I don’t even believe for a second in this fantasy story that these people could be Nubians but I believe that the person who says (Come let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech).
Is a devil.

Please read the bible for your self@ frodobaggins





First of all, are you saying that you believe that the decendents of Ham are the africans?  Do you also believe that there is a curse upon them?  If so, then you must believe what the bible says.  It says that we cannot get to heaven unless we accept Jesus Christ.  Weather there is a curse upon the black man or not, I do not know, but I do know that there is no curse in heaven.  The black man is equal to everyone else.  God loves the black man just as much as He loves the white man.  If there is a curse, it is because it was mouthed by a prophet.  Also, remember that if you are in Christ, you are not under a curse, but under grace.  I do not believe that africans were born to be slaves.

On the other note.  God confused the languages, not the devil.  I thought that you read if for yourself?  Please read it again.  It was God who confused the languages at the tower of babel because they were doing something foolish.  They were building a tower to heaven, which as you should know is impossible.  God is in charge here, not you or me or anyone else.  He does what He sees fit to do.  His judgements are always just.

[Bantu_Kelani]

WHY YOU CANNOT REFUTE THE REVELATIONS AND SCRIPTURES THAT PROVE YOUR GOD IS WRONG TO BLACK CIVILIZATION? WHO OR WHAT ARE YOU? WHY YOU CANNOT ANSWER THIS BASIC QUESTION? YOU ARE A PETTY MISSIONARY, SUPERSTITIOUS, AND IGNORANT YOU HAVE NO POINT!!!!

B.K

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.  He hasn't wronged the African people.  He loves them.  Any african who chooses Him has the same blessings as anyone from any other race.  Where has He been cruel to the Africans?  He is the creator of all things and knows everything there is to know about you and everyone else.  There is not anything that He does not know.
Stop saying that He hates the africans because He loves them.  God didn't cause people to do evil.  Those people will be judged harshly for their offenses, unless they repent.  Just as you have a chance to repent.

Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Don't play with fire.  God wants to save you but He will judge you harshly if you reject Him.  

[Oshun_Auset]

Jemba you offended nobody.

Kelani...I've been cracking up reading this thread.

Missionary man....Nobody wants to buy stock in Jesus Christ Inc. take your weak sales pitch elsewhere.

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction:

The central question for investigation in this study is, Was Jesus Christ a true figure of History? The question can, and must be, answered affirmatively for a considerable number of reasons. First and foremost, the four Gospels themselves can be demonstrated to be valid, trustworthy historical documents. That is, using the historical method fairly, as one would use the method on any other ancient document, one would discover that the four Gospels have better attestation than any other writing of antiquity. [1] However, this paper will dismiss the Gospel evidence, as solid as it is.

Furthermore, this paper will dismiss the Epistles of the New Testament, some of which even critical scholars accept as written by the traditional writers during the traditional periods of time. For example, I Corinthians, accepted by nearly all NT scholars as written by the historical person, Paul, [2] contains numerous references to Jesus Christ (a contemporary of Paul's). By avoiding the evidence of the New Testament, this paper will mute the cumulative testimony of 40,000 manuscripts - although one would be justified in submitting them first as the best evidence available.

Finally, this paper will refrain from engaging the statements made about Jesus by very early Christian writers who lived within the first century and one half after Jesus lived. This includes statements preserved from Clement of Rome (fl.ca .96), Ignatius (ca. 35-ca. 107), Papias (ca. 60-130), Polycarp (ca. 69-ca. 155), the Didache (late 1st, early 2nd c.), The Epistle of Barnabas (between A.D. 70&135), Quadratus (fl.ca. 124), Aristides (mid-2nd c.), Justin Martyr (ca. 100-ca.165), Hegesippus (2nd c.), Iranaeus (ca. 130-ca. 200), Tertullian (ca. 160-ca. 225), and Origen (ca. 185-ca. 254). [3] Note that there is no good reason to dismiss these statements. Just because these sources are all Christian does not invalidate them as witnesses. People sympathetic to a Person or cause are well capable of passing along accurate information. This is especially true when one considers two facts: (1) the above people all lived to within about a one-hundred and fifty years of Jesus Christ, and (2) they present the inquirer with a significant plurality of witnesses. If these same conditions were met by evidences of any other historical figure, the historical existence of that person would be unquestioned.

Thus, a considerable quantity of historical evidence will be discounted here, for the sake of the most hardened skeptic. Removing the New Testament, as well as early Christian writers, from consideration leaves the historical inquirer with two basic sources of information: secular Greek and Roman writers, and Jewish rabbis. Note, then that the sources we engage are manifold and varied in background, including both neutral and hostile witnesses. A hostile witness is especially important in establishing the existence of a historical figure. This paper will ultimately seek to answer the question, What can be known about Jesus if the entire New Testament did not exist?

I. The Secular Greek and Roman Writers


A. Julius Africanus (ca. 160-ca. 240), a Jerusalem-born Christian writer, recorded something written by the Samaritan-born historian, Thallus (ca. A.D. 52). Africanus, addressing the darkness during the crucifixion, states, "Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun - unreasonably, it seems to me." [4]

1. The reason Africanus saw Thallus' explanation as unreasonable was because the Passover occurred during the full moon (there can be no solar eclipse, with the sun behind the moon when the moon is full, which necessitates the sun shining on the moon).
2. Note that Thallus did not deny the existence and crucifixion of Jesus . He was only trying to explain away the supernatural element in the crucifixion.

3. Finally, Thallus dates the crucifixion to the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (about A.D.29).


B. Africanus and Origen both mention the Chronicles (volumes of history) written by a man named Phlegon. Africanus says Phlegon refers to the same eclipse, saying, "he records that in the time of Tiberius Caesar at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth. [5] Origen (ca. 185-ca. 254), defending a historical view of the earthquake and the darkness, said he was, "adducing the testimony of Phlegon, who relates that these events took place at the time when our Savior suffered." [6]

1. Note that both Africanus and Origen have knowledge of secular documents attesting to the historical crucifixion, together with written accounts of the earthquake and darkness.
2. A later, sixth century writer, Philopon, also states, "about this darkness . . . Phlegon recalls it in the Olympiads" [the title of Phlegon's history]. [7]


C. Flavius Josephus (ca. 37-ca. 100) was a native of Palestine, who became the most significant Jewish historian in the first century. There are two passages in Josephus that merit our attention.

1. In Josephus' The Antiquity of the Jews, book 18 paragraph 3 reads, Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day . . . and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. [8]

a. Note that the vocabulary and style of this paragraph are consistent with other passages in Josephus.
b. Even so, some question numerous segments of this statement, and contend that Josephus said part of it, and later Christians added the decidedly Christian portions. Even if this is true, historical Earle Cairnes notes that, "most scholars agree that this basic information just mentioned [that Jesus was a 'wise man' condemned to die on the cross by Pilate] is most likely a part of the original text." [9]


2. Josephus says that Aranus (Ananias], assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [10]

D. Pliny the Younger (62-ca. 113), was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia. In about A.D. 112, he wrote a letter of inquiry to the emperor, Trajan. The letter requested the proper administration of handling cases involving Christians that came under his care. The letter is quite lengthy, so this paper will cite only the most crucial passages. [11]

1. Meanwhile, this is the course that I have adopted in the case of those brought before me as Christians. I ask them if they are Christians. If they admit it, I repeat the question a second and third time, threatening capital punishment; if they persist I sentence them to death.
2. All who denied that they were or had been Christians I considered should be discharged . . . especially because they cursed Christ, a thing which, it is said, genuine Christians cannot be induced to do.

3. [Those who denied their faith] all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods and cursed Christ.

4. [Christians declared] that on an appointed day they had been accustomed to meet before daybreak, and recite a hymn antiphonally to Christ, as to a god.

5. Trajan's response has also been preserved (he basically approved of Pliny's method).


E. Cornelius Tacitus (ca.60-ca.120) was a senator under the reign of Vespasian, and from 112-112 was proconsul of Asia. In his Annals, he explains how Nero handled the rumor that he himself set fire to Rome in A.D. 64:

"And so, to get rid of this rumor, Nero set up as the culprits and punished with the utmost refinement of cruelty a class hated for the abominations, who are commonly called Christians. Christus, from whom the name is derived, was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. Checked for the moment, this pernicious superstition again broke out, not only in Judea, the source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . ." [12]
a. The label, "pernicious superstition" can surely be taken as indirect and unconscious testimony to the belief of the early Church that Jesus rose from the dead.


F. Suetonius (ca. 75-160) was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House. Writing in about A.D. 120, he addressed the expulsion of Jews and Christians from Rome under the reign of Claudius in A.D. 49 (see Acts 18:2):

1. Since the Jews were continually making disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome. [13]

a. "Chrestus" is undoubtedly a variant of Christus.
b. The "disturbances" were probably the bickering between Jews and Christians.


2. Suetonius also addresses Nero's persecution of Christians: "punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a set of men adhering to a novel and mischievous superstition. . . ." [14]

G. Lucian of Samosata was a Greek satirist. Writing in about A.D. 170, Lucian said:

The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. [15]

H. Finally, the Syrian Mara Bar-Serapion, probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote from prison to this son sometime after A.D. 70. His letter endeavored to encourage his son to pursue wisdom. The complete paragraph is rather extended, but worth quoting at length:

What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: The Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching of what he had given. [16]

II. The Jewish Rabbis
Introduction: There are a number of statements in the Talmud directed against Jesus. (The Talmud is a collection of rabbinical teachings collected over the centuries, with one version being completed about A.D. 400-425 (the Jerusalem Talmud), and another version completed about A.D. 500-550 (the Babylonian Talmud). [17]


A. In the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a, we find this statement,

It was taught: On the eve of Passover Yeshua (the Nazarene) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." [18]
1. Later in Sanhedrin 43a one finds this comment about Jesus: "Our rabbis taught: Yeshua had five disciples - Mattai, Nakkai, Netzer, Buni, and Todah." [19] Although much has been confused, what has been preserved is that Jesus was known by his Aramaic name, Yeshua, and that he had disciples. The commentary proceeds to develop elaborate puns, using the five fictitious names as a springboard (this explains why the names to not match up).


B. In the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 107b we find,

One day he (Rabbi Joshua) was reciting the Shema (Deut. 6:4) when Jesus came before him. He intended to receive him and made a sign to him. He (Jesus) thinking that it was to repel him, went up, put up a brick, and worshiped it . . . . And a Master has said, "Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and led Israel astray." [20]
1. Note that both of these passages provide the name, "Jesus the Nazarene."

2. Note that rather than denying Jesus' miracles, these sources attribute them to magic (see Mark 3:22; Matt. 9:34; 12:24).

3. Note that these witnesses attest to Jesus' crucifixion ("hanged") on the eve of the Passover.


C. The Talmud also contains a number of stories centering on one Ben Pandera, according to which Jesus was the son of the Roman mercenary Pandera, "who begot a child with Joseph's adulterous wife, Mary, during her menstrual period." [21] Note that both of Jesus' parents are mentioned by name.
D. The Tosefta, a rabbinical document published about A.D. 220-230, says, "It happened with R. Elazar ben Damah, whom a serpent bit, that Jacob, a man of Kefar Soma, came to heal him in the name of Yeshua ben Pantera; but R. Ishamel did not let him." [22]

E. A couple of different rabbinical baraitot [23] state, "When King Janneus slew our Rabbis, Rabbi Joshua [ben Perahia] and Jesus fled to Alexandria of Egypt" where Jesus was later excommunicated and condemned for worshiping an idol (b. Sanh. 107b; b.Sota 47a). [24] (See the flight to Egypt in Matt. 2:13-15).

F. The rabbis express the hope that they will "not have a son or a disciple who burns his food in public [i.e., teaches heresy], like Jesus the Nazarene" (b. Sanh. 103a; b. Ber. 17a-b).

G. Rabbi Abbahu (late 3rd, early 4th century) is said to have warned, "If a man says to you, 'I am God,' he is a liar; or 'I am the son of man,' in the end he will regret it; or 'I will go up to heaven' - he that says it will not perform it" (y. Ta'an. 2.1).

H. Rabbi Aha (4th century) declares: "there was a man, the son of a woman, who would rise up and seek to make himself God, and cause the entire world to err . . . . If he says that he is God, he lies; and in the future he will cause to err - that he departs and returns in the end. He says, but will not do . . . . Alas, who shall live of that people that listens to that man who makes himself God?" (Yal. Simeoni on Num 23:7).

I. Explaining the resurrection of Jesus, one manuscript states, "He then went and raised Jesus by incantation" (b. Git. 57a).


III. Conclusion

A. Before formulating any conclusions, we must note that there are numerous other allusions to Jesus Christ, in both secular and sacred sources. For example, scholars are generally agreed that ancient rabbis referred to Jesus as "so-and-so," in order to show their contempt for him and avoid mentioning him by name. These references were not included in the above survey. Moreover, many times information about Christ can be known simply by observing what is said about Christians in the first two centuries. These references were also avoided in the above survey. Furthermore, a great deal is said about Jesus in quasi-Christian sources, such as the Gnostic writings found in Nag Hammadi Egypt in 1945 (which date back to the late 3rd, or early 4th centuries). Finally, the entire body of literature known as the Agrapha, New Testament Apocrypha, and New Testament Pseudepigrapha has been consciously neglected here. In other words, there is a wealth of information available that provide additional attestation of Jesus' life.
B. At the beginning of this study we posed the question, "What can be known about Jesus if the entire New Testament did not exist?" Limiting oneself just to the historical documents surveyed in this study, one can learn the following things about Jesus:


1. Jesus' natural parents were Joseph and Mary.
2. Jesus had cause to flee to Egypt.

3. Jesus was known to have originated in Nazareth, and thus was called, Jesus the Nazarene (he was also known by his Aramaic name, Yeshua, and by his Greek name, Christ).

4. Jesus had a brother, whose name was James.

5. Jesus had disciples who followed him, much like other rabbis of the time.

6. Jesus claimed to be God, and called himself by the title, Son of Man.

7. Pontius Pilate was the governor in charge of Jesus' trial, which took place during the reign of Tiberius Caesar.

8. Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover.

9. During the crucifixion, there was an earthquake and a darkening of the sun.

10. Jesus had followers who could not be induced to curse his name, even upon threat of death.

11. By the end of the first century, Jesus' followers were singing hymns in worship to him as God.

12. Jesus' followers would pray for people to be healed in the name of Jesus.

13. Rumors were circulating that this Jesus came back to life from the dead.

14. Secular writers scoffed at Jesus' followers, because they thought the followers were superstitious.


C. One cannot conclude this study, however, without stating what should be obvious by now. If a Christian encounters a skeptic who refuses to believe Jesus was a genuine figure of history, the Christian should ask two questions:

1. What other religious leader has more hard evidence of his historical existence? and
2. What other ancient personality from any background has more evidence of his historical existence?

3. There is no way to avoid the conclusion that there is more evidence for the historical genuiness of Jesus Christ than any figure of the ancient world. If we are going to discount Jesus' existence, we have no alternative but to take a position of total historical skepticism.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTES:


[1] See, "Why Should I Listen to Stories about Jesus Instead of to Other Sacred Texts," pp. 4.1-4.24 in these notes. Also, see John W. Montgomery, History and Christianity: A Vigorous, Convincing Presentation of the Evidence for a Historical Jesus (Minneapolis: Bethany House Publishers, 1955).
[2] See Gordon Fee, "The First Epistle to the Corinthians," NICNT, 15.

[3] For a partial listing of early patristic citations, see Josh McDowell and Bill Wilson, He Walked Among Us: Evidence for the Historical Jesus (Nashville,: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1993), chapter 4.

[4] Julius Africanus, Chronography 18.1, quoted in Josh McDowell and Bill Wilson, He Walked Among Us, 35.

[5] Africanus, Chronography 18.1, quoted in Josh McDowell and Bill Wilson, He Walked Among Us, 36.

[6] Origen, Against Celsus 2.59, McDowell and Wilson, 36.

[7] McDowell and Wilson, 36.

[8] The Works of Josephus, translated by William Whiston (Peabody: Hendrickson Publishers, 1987) 480.

[9] Quoted by McDowell and Wilson, 45.

[10] Josephus, Antiquities, 20.9.1, Whiston, 538.

[11] From Henry Bettenson, ed. Documents of the Christian Church (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1963) 3-4.

[12] Bettenson, Documents, 2.

[13] Ibid.

[14] Bettenson, Documents, 2.

[15] Lucian, The Death of Peregrine 11-13, quoted by McDowell and Wilson, 53.

[16] Quoted from a Syriac manuscript in the British Museum by McDowell and Wilson, 54.

[17] Craig A. Evans, Noncanonical Writings and New Testament Interpretation (Peabody: Hendrickson, 1992) 126.

[18] Edwin M. Yamauchi, "Jesus Outside the New Testament: What Is the Evidence?" Jesus Under Fire, Michael Wilkins and J.P. Moreland, Eds. (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1995) 214.

[19] McDowell and Wilson, He Walked Among Us, 65.

[20] Yamauchi, "Jesus Outside the New Testament," 214.

[21] Ibid.

[22] McDowell and Wilson, He Walked Among Us, 66.

[23] A baraita (singular, baraitot plural) was a rabbinical writing separate from the Mishna, the body of rabbinical writings published about A.D. 200. The word baraita is Aramaic for, "standing outside." In a reference (e.g. b. Sanh.), the 'b.' stands for baraita.

[24] Evans, Noncanonical Writings, 144. All of the following citations step from this source, pp. 144-146.



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[Oshun_Auset]

We're sick and tired of your bull$#*! game, Die and go to heaven in Jesus' name.

[jemba]

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said; (Father, the hour has come glorify your son, that your son also may glorify you, as you have given him authority over all flesh, that should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true god, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I have glorified you on the earth. I have finished my work which you have given me to do. And now, O father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

Is he god or who was hearing his prayers in heaven at the time?
There was an empty seat in the heaven because Jesus is the Christian god
So he himself was praying to nobody.
If we have to go to Jesus Christ to go to this Christian heaven then where was the people who where born before Jesus before the time of Adam and eve going to?

Genesis 4:13

And Cain said to the lord, ( my punishment is greater than I can bear! Surely you have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on earth, and it will happen that anyone who shall find me will kill me).
And the lord said to Cain, (there for whoever shall kill Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold) and the lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone who finds him should kill him.

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said; (Father, the hour has come glorify your son, that your son also may glorify you, as you have given him authority over all flesh, that should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true god, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I have glorified you on the earth. I have finished my work which you have given me to do. And now, O father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

Is he god or who was hearing his prayers in heaven at the time?
There was an empty seat in the heaven because Jesus is the Christian god
So he himself was praying to nobody.
If we have to go to Jesus Christ to go to this Christian heaven then where was the people who where born before Jesus before the time of Adam and eve going to?

Genesis 4:13

And Cain said to the lord, ( my punishment is greater than I can bear! Surely you have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on earth, and it will happen that anyone who shall find me will kill me).
And the lord said to Cain, (there for whoever shall kill Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold) and the lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone who finds him should kill him.

God is a three part being.  God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.  The Father was in heaven, the Son was on earth, and His Spirit is everywhere at once.  It also dwells inside of believer's in a special way.  It resides in heaven.  Jesus Christ was praying to the Father.  They are three different aspects of God, yet they are one mind.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(KJV)


Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(KJV)

Jesus Christ is the Word.  Jesus Christ is God.

Jesus said:

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Jesus declares to philip that He is the Father:

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

They exist in three sepret forms, yet they are one God.  Just as an egg is made up of a shell, a yolk, and the white, God is three parts just the same.

The people who were born before Jesus Christ either went to hell or they went to paradise.  Paradise was the place that the believer's went until the sacrifice of Jesus Christ's blood was presented to the Father in heaven.  

Abraham's bosom is a part of paradise.  Abraham went there and here is a story about this place.

Lu 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[jemba]

John 2:28 to 3

And now, little children abide in him, that when he appears, we may have confidence
And not be ashamed before him at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you that everyone who practices righteousness is born of him.
Behold what manner of love the father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of god. Therefore the world does not know as, because it did not know him. Beloved know we are children of god; and it has not yet been revealed, we shall be like him, for we shall see as he is. And everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.

Jesus is speaking about the father or love, every quality a human being should have as the almighty has in him or her.


Mathew 6:22

The lamp of the body is the eyes. If there fore your eyes is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, whole body will be full of darkness.
If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness.

Jesus which is not his real name is speaking about the Holy Ghost or the soul, your soul sees through the eyes and we only choose to do what we see.

We human beings are made of the spirit the soul and love, which all human being should have because we are made in the image of the angels who made as.
The soul or the holy ghost is not of this world, the spirit is the son of man or the flesh and the father is an easy way of him explaining one of the Almighty’s aspect to his very simple minded people the Israelites of the twelve tribes of their ancestors. He refers to his people as babes or children many times in the Arian bible.

Mathew 15:21 to 28

Then Jesus went out from there and parted the region of the tyre and sidon. And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to him saying ( have mercy O lord, son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed).
But he answered her not a word.
And his disciples came and urged him, saying (send her away, for she cries out after as) He answered and said (I was not sent except to the lost ship of the house of Israel)
Then she came and worshiped him, saying (lord help me!)
But he answered and said (it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs). And she said (yes, lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters table)
Then Jesus answered and said to her,( O woman, of great faith! Let it be to you as you desire) and the daughter was healed from that very hour.

Jesus or noel which is the name the angel gave to his parents to give to him at birth. The name Jesus was given to him by the Romans after his death.
Noel could not heal the woman for he would be breaking the rules which were given to him from a higher ranking leader. So he said to her I can’t lift a finger to help you because you are not an Israelite( white with brown eyes and black hair) but because of the faith you have Shawn in me you can touch me and heal yourself.