How to get to heaven when you die

[jemba]

Time???



I just write what I have been taught hoping anyone that reads will learn something new. I learned something new from sister oshu_auset on this post and I am reading and investigating some of doctor ben jochannans books. Didn’t you learn anything new @Sister Kelani?





Yesu Aza Prophet ya ba Mindele  

[Oshun_Auset]

Excuse me but no one is saying that crucifixion did not predate Jesus Christ's own crucifixion.  What you have just said to me is like saying that my friend didn't die in a car accident since car accidents were around before her death.  Yes people were crucified before Jesus Christ was.  The difference is that HE was the Son of God.  They were not.

FYI... Bacchus/Dionysus is a Greco-Roman god and savior(not a historical figure) and his accompanying myth says he was crucified, rose after three days...was also referred to as "the son of God" ect...and so on...Sound familiar?

The MYTH is repeated at least 16 times. Check

Literalists kill me.

My posts on this thread are much more for others than for you. I don't expect you to admit historical facts or greater spiritual truths. . Blind faith and the (I have the only way and truth) arrogance taught by X-tianity(a manifestation of it's Constantinian and colonial aculturation) prevent this in most cases.

<sub>The philosophers of the ancient world were the masters of Spiritual Truth. They were mystics not researchers. The great Greek philosopher Pythagoras, for example, is remembered today for his mathematical work, but few people know him as he actually was—a mystic who many believed was able to  still the winds and raise the dead.

At the heart of the Mysteries were myths concerning a dying savior/gad who was resurrected.  This savior/god was known by many different names. He is who the  great mythologist Joseph Campbell called "The Hero of a Thousand Faces."  In Egypt he was Osiris, in Greece Dionysus, in Asia Minor Attis, in Syria Adonis, in Italy Bacchus, in Persia Mithras. all these myths are telling the story of the same mythical being..  Many scholars use the combined name Osiris-Dionysus when referring to this specific Mystery tradition.

From the fifth century BC philosophers such as Xenophanes and Empedodes were concerned that many people were  taking the stories of the gods and goddesses as literally true. They knew that they were allegories of human spiritual experiences. The myths of Osiris-Dionysus are not be understood as historical tales, but as a symbolic narratives which encode the mystical teachings of the Ancient Wisdom. Because of this, although the details were developed and adapted over time by different cultures, the myth of Osiris-Dionysus has remained essentially the same.

The various myths of the different savior/gods of the Ancient Mysteries share what the  Joseph Campbell called “the same anatomy.” With these different myths it is possible to see both their uniqueness and fundamental sameness.  On the face of it they look very different, yet they are essentially the same story of the savior/god of the Pagan Mysteries.

The more you study the various versions of the myth of Osiris-Dionysus, the more it will became obvious that the story of Jesus has all the characteristics of this perennial tale. Event by event,  Jesus’ supposed biography was constructed from mythic motifs previously relating to Pagan gods and saviors.  They are:

¶ Osiris-Dionysus is God made flesh, the savior and “Son of God.”

¶ His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin.

¶ He is born in a cave or stable on December 25 before three shepherds.

¶ He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.

¶ He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.

¶ He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.

¶ He dies at Easter-time as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

¶ After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.

¶ His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.

¶ His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood

http://www.aznewage.com/rootsofchristianity.htm</sub>

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

Your full of it.  Jesus Christ was predicted to come 1,500 years before He came.  Maybe they copied their lies from the bible, like alot of other false religions do.  

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. {everlasting: Heb. the days of eternity}
(KJV)

This was written hundreds of years before Christ even came.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. {shall call: or, thou, O virgin, shalt call}
(KJV)

This was written hundreds of years before Christ came.

Introduction:  

The central question for investigation in this study is, Was Jesus Christ a true figure of History? The question can, and must be, answered affirmatively for a considerable number of reasons. First and foremost, the four Gospels themselves can be demonstrated to be valid, trustworthy historical documents. That is, using the historical method fairly, as one would use the method on any other ancient document, one would discover that the four Gospels have better attestation than any other writing of antiquity. [1] However, this paper will dismiss the Gospel evidence, as solid as it is.  

Furthermore, this paper will dismiss the Epistles of the New Testament, some of which even critical scholars accept as written by the traditional writers during the traditional periods of time. For example, I Corinthians, accepted by nearly all NT scholars as written by the historical person, Paul, [2] contains numerous references to Jesus Christ (a contemporary of Paul's). By avoiding the evidence of the New Testament, this paper will mute the cumulative testimony of 40,000 manuscripts - although one would be justified in submitting them first as the best evidence available.  

Finally, this paper will refrain from engaging the statements made about Jesus by very early Christian writers who lived within the first century and one half after Jesus lived. This includes statements preserved from Clement of Rome (fl.ca .96), Ignatius (ca. 35-ca. 107), Papias (ca. 60-130), Polycarp (ca. 69-ca. 155), the Didache (late 1st, early 2nd c.), The Epistle of Barnabas (between A.D. 70&135), Quadratus (fl.ca. 124), Aristides (mid-2nd c.), Justin Martyr (ca. 100-ca.165), Hegesippus (2nd c.), Iranaeus (ca. 130-ca. 200), Tertullian (ca. 160-ca. 225), and Origen (ca. 185-ca. 254). [3] Note that there is no good reason to dismiss these statements. Just because these sources are all Christian does not invalidate them as witnesses. People sympathetic to a Person or cause are well capable of passing along accurate information. This is especially true when one considers two facts: (1) the above people all lived to within about a one-hundred and fifty years of Jesus Christ, and (2) they present the inquirer with a significant plurality of witnesses. If these same conditions were met by evidences of any other historical figure, the historical existence of that person would be unquestioned.  

Thus, a considerable quantity of historical evidence will be discounted here, for the sake of the most hardened skeptic. Removing the New Testament, as well as early Christian writers, from consideration leaves the historical inquirer with two basic sources of information: secular Greek and Roman writers, and Jewish rabbis. Note, then that the sources we engage are manifold and varied in background, including both neutral and hostile witnesses. A hostile witness is especially important in establishing the existence of a historical figure. This paper will ultimately seek to answer the question, What can be known about Jesus if the entire New Testament did not exist?  

I. The Secular Greek and Roman Writers  


A. Julius Africanus (ca. 160-ca. 240), a Jerusalem-born Christian writer, recorded something written by the Samaritan-born historian, Thallus (ca. A.D. 52). Africanus, addressing the darkness during the crucifixion, states, "Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun - unreasonably, it seems to me." [4]  

1. The reason Africanus saw Thallus' explanation as unreasonable was because the Passover occurred during the full moon (there can be no solar eclipse, with the sun behind the moon when the moon is full, which necessitates the sun shining on the moon).  
2. Note that Thallus did not deny the existence and crucifixion of Jesus . He was only trying to explain away the supernatural element in the crucifixion.  

3. Finally, Thallus dates the crucifixion to the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (about A.D.29).  


B. Africanus and Origen both mention the Chronicles (volumes of history) written by a man named Phlegon. Africanus says Phlegon refers to the same eclipse, saying, "he records that in the time of Tiberius Caesar at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth. [5] Origen (ca. 185-ca. 254), defending a historical view of the earthquake and the darkness, said he was, "adducing the testimony of Phlegon, who relates that these events took place at the time when our Savior suffered." [6]  

1. Note that both Africanus and Origen have knowledge of secular documents attesting to the historical crucifixion, together with written accounts of the earthquake and darkness.  
2. A later, sixth century writer, Philopon, also states, "about this darkness . . . Phlegon recalls it in the Olympiads" [the title of Phlegon's history]. [7]  


C. Flavius Josephus (ca. 37-ca. 100) was a native of Palestine, who became the most significant Jewish historian in the first century. There are two passages in Josephus that merit our attention.  

1. In Josephus' The Antiquity of the Jews, book 18 paragraph 3 reads, Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day . . . and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. [8]  

a. Note that the vocabulary and style of this paragraph are consistent with other passages in Josephus.  
b. Even so, some question numerous segments of this statement, and contend that Josephus said part of it, and later Christians added the decidedly Christian portions. Even if this is true, historical Earle Cairnes notes that, "most scholars agree that this basic information just mentioned [that Jesus was a 'wise man' condemned to die on the cross by Pilate] is most likely a part of the original text." [9]  


2. Josephus says that Aranus (Ananias], assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [10]  

D. Pliny the Younger (62-ca. 113), was the governor of the Roman province of Bithynia. In about A.D. 112, he wrote a letter of inquiry to the emperor, Trajan. The letter requested the proper administration of handling cases involving Christians that came under his care. The letter is quite lengthy, so this paper will cite only the most crucial passages. [11]  

1. Meanwhile, this is the course that I have adopted in the case of those brought before me as Christians. I ask them if they are Christians. If they admit it, I repeat the question a second and third time, threatening capital punishment; if they persist I sentence them to death.  
2. All who denied that they were or had been Christians I considered should be discharged . . . especially because they cursed Christ, a thing which, it is said, genuine Christians cannot be induced to do.  

3. [Those who denied their faith] all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods and cursed Christ.  

4. [Christians declared] that on an appointed day they had been accustomed to meet before daybreak, and recite a hymn antiphonally to Christ, as to a god.  

5. Trajan's response has also been preserved (he basically approved of Pliny's method).  


E. Cornelius Tacitus (ca.60-ca.120) was a senator under the reign of Vespasian, and from 112-112 was proconsul of Asia. In his Annals, he explains how Nero handled the rumor that he himself set fire to Rome in A.D. 64:  

"And so, to get rid of this rumor, Nero set up as the culprits and punished with the utmost refinement of cruelty a class hated for the abominations, who are commonly called Christians. Christus, from whom the name is derived, was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. Checked for the moment, this pernicious superstition again broke out, not only in Judea, the source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . ." [12]  
a. The label, "pernicious superstition" can surely be taken as indirect and unconscious testimony to the belief of the early Church that Jesus rose from the dead.  


F. Suetonius (ca. 75-160) was a Roman historian and annalist of the Imperial House. Writing in about A.D. 120, he addressed the expulsion of Jews and Christians from Rome under the reign of Claudius in A.D. 49 (see Acts 18:2):  

1. Since the Jews were continually making disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome. [13]  

a. "Chrestus" is undoubtedly a variant of Christus.  
b. The "disturbances" were probably the bickering between Jews and Christians.  


2. Suetonius also addresses Nero's persecution of Christians: "punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a set of men adhering to a novel and mischievous superstition. . . ." [14]  

G. Lucian of Samosata was a Greek satirist. Writing in about A.D. 170, Lucian said:  

The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. [15]  

H. Finally, the Syrian Mara Bar-Serapion, probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote from prison to this son sometime after A.D. 70. His letter endeavored to encourage his son to pursue wisdom. The complete paragraph is rather extended, but worth quoting at length:  

What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: The Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching of what he had given. [16]  

II. The Jewish Rabbis  
Introduction: There are a number of statements in the Talmud directed against Jesus. (The Talmud is a collection of rabbinical teachings collected over the centuries, with one version being completed about A.D. 400-425 (the Jerusalem Talmud), and another version completed about A.D. 500-550 (the Babylonian Talmud). [17]  


A. In the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a, we find this statement,  

It was taught: On the eve of Passover Yeshua (the Nazarene) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." [18]  
1. Later in Sanhedrin 43a one finds this comment about Jesus: "Our rabbis taught: Yeshua had five disciples - Mattai, Nakkai, Netzer, Buni, and Todah." [19] Although much has been confused, what has been preserved is that Jesus was known by his Aramaic name, Yeshua, and that he had disciples. The commentary proceeds to develop elaborate puns, using the five fictitious names as a springboard (this explains why the names to not match up).  


B. In the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 107b we find,  

One day he (Rabbi Joshua) was reciting the Shema (Deut. 6:4) when Jesus came before him. He intended to receive him and made a sign to him. He (Jesus) thinking that it was to repel him, went up, put up a brick, and worshiped it . . . . And a Master has said, "Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and led Israel astray." [20]  
1. Note that both of these passages provide the name, "Jesus the Nazarene."  

2. Note that rather than denying Jesus' miracles, these sources attribute them to magic (see Mark 3:22; Matt. 9:34; 12:24).  

3. Note that these witnesses attest to Jesus' crucifixion ("hanged") on the eve of the Passover.  


C. The Talmud also contains a number of stories centering on one Ben Pandera, according to which Jesus was the son of the Roman mercenary Pandera, "who begot a child with Joseph's adulterous wife, Mary, during her menstrual period." [21] Note that both of Jesus' parents are mentioned by name.  
D. The Tosefta, a rabbinical document published about A.D. 220-230, says, "It happened with R. Elazar ben Damah, whom a serpent bit, that Jacob, a man of Kefar Soma, came to heal him in the name of Yeshua ben Pantera; but R. Ishamel did not let him." [22]  

E. A couple of different rabbinical baraitot [23] state, "When King Janneus slew our Rabbis, Rabbi Joshua [ben Perahia] and Jesus fled to Alexandria of Egypt" where Jesus was later excommunicated and condemned for worshiping an idol (b. Sanh. 107b; b.Sota 47a). [24] (See the flight to Egypt in Matt. 2:13-15).  

F. The rabbis express the hope that they will "not have a son or a disciple who burns his food in public [i.e., teaches heresy], like Jesus the Nazarene" (b. Sanh. 103a; b. Ber. 17a-b).  

G. Rabbi Abbahu (late 3rd, early 4th century) is said to have warned, "If a man says to you, 'I am God,' he is a liar; or 'I am the son of man,' in the end he will regret it; or 'I will go up to heaven' - he that says it will not perform it" (y. Ta'an. 2.1).  

H. Rabbi Aha (4th century) declares: "there was a man, the son of a woman, who would rise up and seek to make himself God, and cause the entire world to err . . . . If he says that he is God, he lies; and in the future he will cause to err - that he departs and returns in the end. He says, but will not do . . . . Alas, who shall live of that people that listens to that man who makes himself God?" (Yal. Simeoni on Num 23:7).  

I. Explaining the resurrection of Jesus, one manuscript states, "He then went and raised Jesus by incantation" (b. Git. 57a).  


III. Conclusion  

A. Before formulating any conclusions, we must note that there are numerous other allusions to Jesus Christ, in both secular and sacred sources. For example, scholars are generally agreed that ancient rabbis referred to Jesus as "so-and-so," in order to show their contempt for him and avoid mentioning him by name. These references were not included in the above survey. Moreover, many times information about Christ can be known simply by observing what is said about Christians in the first two centuries. These references were also avoided in the above survey. Furthermore, a great deal is said about Jesus in quasi-Christian sources, such as the Gnostic writings found in Nag Hammadi Egypt in 1945 (which date back to the late 3rd, or early 4th centuries). Finally, the entire body of literature known as the Agrapha, New Testament Apocrypha, and New Testament Pseudepigrapha has been consciously neglected here. In other words, there is a wealth of information available that provide additional attestation of Jesus' life.  
B. At the beginning of this study we posed the question, "What can be known about Jesus if the entire New Testament did not exist?" Limiting oneself just to the historical documents surveyed in this study, one can learn the following things about Jesus:  


1. Jesus' natural parents were Joseph and Mary.  
2. Jesus had cause to flee to Egypt.  

3. Jesus was known to have originated in Nazareth, and thus was called, Jesus the Nazarene (he was also known by his Aramaic name, Yeshua, and by his Greek name, Christ).  

4. Jesus had a brother, whose name was James.  

5. Jesus had disciples who followed him, much like other rabbis of the time.  

6. Jesus claimed to be God, and called himself by the title, Son of Man.  

7. Pontius Pilate was the governor in charge of Jesus' trial, which took place during the reign of Tiberius Caesar.  

8. Jesus was crucified on the eve of the Passover.  

9. During the crucifixion, there was an earthquake and a darkening of the sun.  

10. Jesus had followers who could not be induced to curse his name, even upon threat of death.  

11. By the end of the first century, Jesus' followers were singing hymns in worship to him as God.  

12. Jesus' followers would pray for people to be healed in the name of Jesus.  

13. Rumors were circulating that this Jesus came back to life from the dead.  

14. Secular writers scoffed at Jesus' followers, because they thought the followers were superstitious.  


C. One cannot conclude this study, however, without stating what should be obvious by now. If a Christian encounters a skeptic who refuses to believe Jesus was a genuine figure of history, the Christian should ask two questions:  

1. What other religious leader has more hard evidence of his historical existence? and  
2. What other ancient personality from any background has more evidence of his historical existence?  

3. There is no way to avoid the conclusion that there is more evidence for the historical genuiness of Jesus Christ than any figure of the ancient world. If we are going to discount Jesus' existence, we have no alternative but to take a position of total historical skepticism.  

[Oshun_Auset]

Your full of it.  Jesus Christ was predicted to come 1,500 years before He came.  Maybe they copied their lies from the bible, like alot of other false religions do.

  

Wow is your timeline off...typical. The Ausarian mythos that Yeshua's life (as stated in the Helio Biblio/Sun Book), so closely mirrored was told millenia prior to any Hebrew Bible existed. Deal with Africa.

http://www.africawithin.com/jochannan/drben_bible_chronology.htm

<sub>10,000–6000 STELLAR CALENDAR in use by the ancient Nile Valley Africans, and other Africans of the Great Lakes regions.

4000 SOLAR CALENDAR in use by the ancient Nile Valley Africans.
Book of the Coming Forth By Day and By Night was introduced in its revised state, also know today as the Book of the Dead [as translated from Hieroglyph to English by Sir. Ernest A. Wallis Budge, London, England, 1885 C.E.].

3700 BEGINNING OF THE "WORLD" [Creation Story according to the Hebrews' adoption of Moses' "Pentateuch much later on].

3100 ["4100"] DYNASTIC PERIODS begin under the Nubian named AHA or NARMER [whom Herodotus called "Menes"]; end of the PRE-DYNASTIC "OLD KINGDOMS."

1770 BIRTH OF ABRAHAM—the "first Hebrew" [Jew]—in Asia, at the City of Ur, Chaldea during its colonial period under African rule; to SUN WORSHIPPERS [parents].

1675 FIRST FOREIGN INVASION OF ALKEBU-LAN [Africa]. Egypt overrun by Hyksos invaders from the Banks of the Oxus River around the so-called "Fertile Crescent." These were the first of the so-called "Semitic Peoples" in Africa.

1670 ABRAHAM AND HIS FAMILY ARRIVED IN AFRICA [Qamt, which the Hebrews were to later rename "Mizrain," today's Moslem's "Mizrair," and Christian's "Egypt"]. Famine and disease drove the handful of Hebrew shepherds into Africa.

1320 [?] MOSES [an African of Qamt] BORN IN AFRICA. [The supposed "Father of the Old Testament"].

1230 [?] MOSES CIVIL WAR AGAINST PHARAOH RAMESES IInd. DATE OF THE "EXODUS OF THE HEBREWS" FROM SUCCOTH TO MOUNT SINAI. [Central Qamt, or "Egypt," to Eastern Qamt].

1190 [?] DATE OF MOSES DISAPPEARANCE [Death"].

700–500 PENTATEUCH ["Five Books of Moses, Holy Torah," or Old Testament] completed and placed into circulation. A VERSION of the Book of the Coming Forth By Day and By Night, as distorted by Hebrews living in "Egypt;" supposedly the "...words of God passed on to Moses. ...," who allegedly "...passed them on, word for word, to God-inspired scribes. ...," etc.

250–100 SEPTUAGINT VERSION OF THE PENTATEUCH. The first Greek VERSION of the Hebrews distortion of the Book of the Coming Forth By Day and By Night written by seventy-two [72] writers: rabbis and other "scholars" ["God inspired scribes" according to the teachings of the Jews, Christians and Moslems]. This was written at Alexandria, Egypt [North Africa] by African Hebrews. It was a compliment of forty-five [45] BOOKS, also called "THE ALEXANDRIAN CANON." This VERSION was used by the earliest Greek and Latin Church.

30–4 [?] BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH. Announcement of a Hebrew boy of Hebrew [Israelite] parents named Joseph and Mary.
Date: C.E. [A.D.]

12 JESUS CHRIST CHALLENGE'S HIS TEACHERS [rabbis] IN THE TEMPLE AT JERUSALEM, JESUS SENT TO AFRICA TO HIDE FROM ROMAN EMPEROR HEROD; STUDY IN THE LODGES; AND FOR HIS INITIATION IN THE MYSTERIES SYSTEM OF EGYPT, NORTH AFRICA.

33 JESUS CHRIST MURDERED BY ROMANS AND JEWS.

52–100 KOINE BIBLE VERSION. First Christian NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE published and circulated. Written in the Greek Language. Parts were written in "Aramaic;" allegedly the "Language Jesus Christ spoke among the common people of Israel. ...," etc., called: PALESTINIAN CANON VERSION. This text was developed by the Synod of Jamnia as a VERSION of the Pentateuch.

322 COUNCIL OF BISHOP AT NICENE. This group of Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church met upon an Edict of Emperor Constantine to take action on the Books of the Bible, along with Mary's "Immaculate Conception" and "Virgin Birth" of Jesus Christ.

323 BISHOPS OF NICENE [on majority vote] APPROVED THE "IMMACULATE CONCEPTION" and "VIRGIN BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST" to Mary. Jesus Christ declared to be "GOD"—THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST" [today's "Spirit"].

350–400 NEW TESTAMENT CANON VERSION. The first twenty-seven [27] Books. A revision of the ORIGINAL total of forty-five [45] Books.

400 SAINT JEROME'S LATIN VULGATE VERSION. Based upon the Greek Septuagint Version.

550 EUROPEAN VERSION OF BABYLONIAN TALMUD. Publication of the 6th Century C.E. racist version of the interpretation of the Pentateuch by European rabbis and other "scholars."

570 [B.H. 52] BIRTH OF PROPHET MOHAMET ibn ABDULLAH. Historians argue as to whether he was born at Mecca or Medina. [B.H.=Before the Hejirn].

622 MOHAMET ibn ABDULLAH FLEES MECCA; ESTABLISHMENT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM AT THE OASIS OF YATHRIB OUTSIDE OF MEDINA; THE YEAR OF THE HEJIRA [A.H.].

670 [?] HOLY QUR'AN [English "Koran"] compiled and circulated. This Moslem Bible adopted the basic teachings of the Old Testament and New Testament. Serious modifications to the teachings in both were made to the satisfaction fo the Prophet and his followers—the chief one of whom was the writer of the first section, "BILAL" [an African from Ethiopia, East Africa].

600–900 MASORETIC TEXT. This VERSION was written in Hebrew by Jewish scribes of the Masorite School. This VERSION is the basic one most so-called "Orthodox Christians" still refer too as the original source, which is incorrect. It was, in fact, the basic Bible used for many more translations into various languages for many generations of Christians.

1382 JOHN WYCLIFF'S FIRST COMPLETE ENGLISH VERSION OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT.

1456 GUTTENBERG VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. The "first book" ever printed by typesetting method. A folio-type edition of the Latin Vulgate Version. It was not "the first book," as so many Christians believe.

1460 [?] MOSES ben MAIMONDIES TALMUD. "Official Translation" of Five Books of Moses according to Moses ben Maimonidees of Spain, et al.

1516 SAINT ERASMUS VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. This was written in the Greek Language.

1529 REVEREND MARTIN LUTHER PROTEST AGAINST THE "EDICT OF THE DIET OF WORMS" against the Reformation. Birth of the major revolution in the Roman Catholic Church and the formation of the foundation of Protestantism.

1535 WILLIAM TYNDALE VERSION. Written in English. The "first English" language version used for further translations, etc. in English.

1535 MILES COVERDALE VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Written in English as a tribute to King Henry VIIIth of Great Britain.

1537 THE FIRST BIBLE EVER PRINTED IN ENGLAND.

1537 SAINT MATTHEW'S VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Written in English according to the Coverdale and Tyndale Versions.

1539 COVERDALE GREAT BIBLE VERSION. An amalgamation of the Coverdale and Tyndale bibles, as authorized by the monarch of Great Britain—Henry VIIIth.

1560 GENEVA VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Written by Coverdale, William Whittingham, John Knox, et at. Produced in Geneva, Switzerland. The "first English Version with Chapters divided into Verses."

1582–1610 DOUAY-RHEIMS VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Written by scholars of the Roman Catholic Church. An English translation of the Latin Vulgate Version at the Catholic College. The name was due to the New Testament issuance at Rheims in 1582 C.E.; whereas the Old Testament issuance was at Douay, France in ca. 1609 or1610 C.E.

1611 KING JAMES AUTHORIZED VERSION OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT. Written by subjects of King James of Great Britain. to satisfy conditions set down by himself and the royalty of his realm, all of which was opposed by the Pope in Rome, particularly those aspects that allowed James to maintain his own polygamous behavior. This is the BIBLE most Black People believe to be "THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE HOLY SCRIPTURE...THE ACTUAL WORDS OF GOD" [meaning Jesus Christ of Nazareth], which was allegedly "...WRITTEN BY GOD INSPIRED SCRIBES." The Black Clergy and Black Theologians perpetuate this myth in order to continue their manipulation of their fellow African People who so believe.

1885 ENGLISH REVISED VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. A revision of the King James Authorized Version of the Old and New Testament by Europeans and European-Americans from the United States of America. This was the "first time in history" that European-Americans were allowed to participate in the further distortions of the ORIGINAL TEACHINGS from the Africans and Asians of the Nile Valley and Tigris-Euphrates Valleys.

1901 AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. By the American Committee that worked on the English Revised Version of 1995 C.E. Jealously between Europeans and European-Americans caused the production of this VERSION.

1924 THE MOFFATT VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. By James Moffatt. Written in 20th Century "modern" English.

1931 SMITH-GOODSPEED VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. The Old Testament prepared by J.M. Powis-Smith as editor; the New Testament by Edgar J. Goodspeed of the University of Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A.

1941 THE CONFRATERNITY VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. A reversion if the Douay-Rheims-Challomer Version. The New Testament section was published by the Episcopal Confraternity of the Christian Doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church; the Old Testament section remained according to the Latin Vulgate Version.

1945–1949 KNOX VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Written in English by Msgr. Ronald A. Knox according to the Latin Vulgate Version authorized by the Roman Catholic Command of Wales and England to counteract the King James Version.

1952 REVISED STANDARD VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. written by a group of the United States of America's European-American "GOD INSPIRED SCRIBES" under the sponsorship of the National Council of Churches of Christ.

1961 NEW ENGLISH VERSION OF THE HOLY BIBLE. Written by a group of English writers under the sponsorship of the Protestant Churches of Britain, and by others from Oxford and Cambridge University Press.

1973 THE COMMON AMERICAN LANGUAGE VERSION. This was approved by a group of rabbis, priests, ministers, and theologians who found all of its contents satisfactory to the TEACHINGS of Judaism and Christianity in the United States of America.


Most Jewish, Christian, and Moslem parishioners do not know very much about the basic book they use as their only religious and divine guide. The reason for this is based in the fact that very few of them, not unlike yourself, know the answers to the following questions related to the history and development of the ORIGINAL BIBLES and their many VERSIONS.</sub>

1. What other religious leader has more hard evidence of his historical existence? and  
2. What other ancient personality from any background has more evidence of his historical existence?  

Only literalists care about these questions. Mystics see the greater truths in all religions. Weather a religious personality actually existed or not is irrelavant. There is no proof outside of the Bible that Jesus is an actual historical figure. Using a text to proove the stories in a text is called circular logic.

It's kind of like reading Aesop's fables and worrying about whether the tortus and hair existed. You'd miss the whole point of the story.

Run 'way missionary boy! No minds to colonize or enslave here!

[preach]

Literalist is a wonderful term or description, Oshun Auset. It involves a lack of imagination, rationale and critical thinking. For too long our people have taken the bible literally to no avail. The literal bible promotes mental slavery, false hope, and inaccurately justifies the ills of society as a test by a jealous, egotistical god. I agree run way missionary boy.

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

So which is it?  You posted 20 different sources for how old the earth was.  Don't tell me, you believe that they are ALL true right?  That's not possible.  That's like saying that you are 30 years old and 50 years old.  Both can't be right.  Either you are 30 years old, or you are 50 years old, or neither is true.  I stongly believe, based upon overwhelming evidence that the bible is God's word and those other books are FALSE.

[jemba]

The god of the bible says many things which I agree with go forth out onto the earth and multiply, do not mix your seeds, Sodom and Gomorra’s burning was also something that had to be done.

Christianity has its negative point but it also gives human beings a basic moral guidance, if Christianity was not there and the Romans gave nothing instead of Christianity. How would the world be under the rule of the Romans without any religions? I think Christianity provides people who do not have a need for a god for the moment with an idea or an image of the most high until that day another race takes other?

[preach]

Jemba, what on earth or in the cosmos are you talking about? Your ideas don't coordinate for lack of a better word.

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

You are right on that one preach.  

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

Literalist is a wonderful term or description, Oshun Auset. It involves a lack of imagination, rationale and critical thinking. For too long our people have taken the bible literally to no avail. The literal bible promotes mental slavery, false hope, and inaccurately justifies the ills of society as a test by a jealous, egotistical god. I agree run way missionary boy.

You are offbase on this one however.

[jemba]

Xfrodobaggins needs to reassure himself as he realy doesn’t believe in the bible himself?

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

I have no problem with believing God's word.  It is man's word that I don't trust.  

[jemba]

When Mahatma Gandhi was a live did he ever go out into the public to preach?

When Jesus was alive did he ever go out into the public to preach or did people follow him to be taught?

If you know what you are talking about is the truth then you will only say it once and who ever listens, listens if they don’t, then its up to them right.

Jesus never forced anybody to listen he never went out to preach without an audience once they listened to what he had to say they knew that was the answer or if they did not he didnt care.  

   

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

First of all, I am not forcing what I have to say on anyone.  If that is true than I can say that you are forcing what you have to say on me.  

Regarding that other stuff:

Where does it say that in the bible that Jesus only told them once.  If they came back to listen to Him speak, they heard it probably several times a day.  Just as you keep comming back to this thread about the gospel and seem to wonder why you are hearing the gospel.

[guybaux]

There is a little mystery about heaven.Astronomical research indicate (without proff) it is not in this world. May be Krisna loka. Most likely it is a stae of mind and some people can achieve it by simply turning on or off some mental functions.  Otheres may have to train themselves for decades to achive the same thing. Previous generations may have taught that hell was under the earth ( full of fire) and heaven above but this generation has no reason to hold to such beliefs.  Let us think first about the posibility of heaven.