How to get to heaven when you die

[XFRODOBAGGINSX]

There are some people who will never have the ability to develop free thinking
If you don’t ask questions you don’t get answers.

The people who don’t get answers get orders and Christians don’t have the abilities to give me the answers I am looking for.

Where is god?

Where is heaven?

What happens after death?

The bible has not answered these questions even for Christians themselves, the bible only makes them believe that there is a god not see or hear or feel or touch.
If humans beings can’t experience god with their fives senses they will not be able to explain what or who is god.

So they put them selves in an elusion and pretend to believe in god or a god because they have no explanations within their range.  

These questions are answered in the bible

[guybaux]

Hotep Guybaux



The bible has negative and positive words it’s not for Nubians, the bible has does not have enough knowledge to help a spirit stand tall. It’s a beginners book read it to children but when they get little older then what.  


 

Hotep Jemba.

I always wonder why it is not amenhotep?

So sorry folks, that I could not respond to postings, system failure.


Concerning the quote:

I really struggle to keep an open mind on these issues, hoping that somewhere along the line I would be able to see the benefits each side has to offer.
On these so intangible matters I have to employ the principle of correspondence from hermetics.
"As above, so below" According to this principle, Christians are spiritually the most advanced religious group on the planet. If they actually are then we need to explain the contrary data. If they are not then the principle of correspondence is wrong. What would we put in its place?

[guybaux]

Bad analogy. How can you compare the seemingly instantaneous light form an electrical switch,(to the uninitiated stoneage man...an initiate in who electricty is conducted would know that there is a process) with that of someone claiming instant spirtual enlightenment? in shortcuts. ............

Yet they preach and prostelize.

Since the analogy is no good I will say in plain language.
This was a response supporting XFRODOBAGGINSX  claims that he gets peace etc from the lord.

The point is that Christianity says do this, that and the other and you will get a certain result. For nearly two thousand years people have been doing as they are told and they claim to get the result. Some of them have it so good that you could chop off their heads and they do not complain.
This is just like any test that researchers would do in their laboratory. It must be done under the prescribed conditions. Hence unbelievers do not the results but not because the theory is wrong.

[guybaux]

I reread your posting. The implication is there, especially in the  sentence below. Your denial is important because there are people who are preaching just that and the believers lose confidence in themselves, loose hope and cannot contemplate a future that does not involve the active benevolent participation of white people.

Why? ..................

The same system Rastafarians(and all other like minded African centered folk, as well as others non Euro-centered people) are against, and must DESTROY because of the inherent massive oppression and exploitation that was and IS it's target GOAL in formation!

 

History is replete with empires, some quite petty but all represent the same phenomena: imperialism. I would not know where to draw the line. When an empire is too big, etc. and so I cannot see anything special in size or the fact that some empires cross oceans.


Migration may be the most common human phenomena. If you go to Nigeria all the people there, except maybe the Ibos and the Pigmies, will tell you themselves that the came from somewhere else. They beat up the people that were there before and took their lands. European expansion and posses of various territories around the world was not a special European phenomenon.  I myself believe that if they did not have superior weapons technologies they would still be fighting the people of Americas to this day or they would have been force to compromise with them.


As for culture, I would say it is the determining factor in this whole mystery. But culture can be learned the way one learns arithmetic in school. Any people who fail to learn the culture of survival are going to get what is coming to them.

[Oshun_Auset]

Since the analogy is no good I will say in plain language.
This was a response supporting XFRODOBAGGINSX  claims that he gets peace etc from the lord.

Inner peace doesn't cause one to try and prostelize an African spiritually/culturally focused board, or to ignore the history of one's own religion and expect others looking at things from an African focus not to so also because of some 'feel good' thing. That is inner delusion, denial, romanticism, as well as a a form of cultural/religious imperialist tendancies.

The point is that Christianity says do this, that and the other and you will get a certain result. For nearly two thousand years people have been doing as they are told and they claim to get the result. Some of them have it so good that you could chop off their heads and they do not complain.
This is just like any test that researchers would do in their laboratory. It must be done under the prescribed conditions. Hence unbelievers do not the results but not because the theory is wrong.

And part of the 'prescribed conditions' is a global order of Euromean/White supremacy. Like I stated B4... White supremacy is still the order of the day. And that means Black is still at the bottom of the caste system. If you don't get that then....

[Oshun_Auset]

I reread your posting. The implication is there, especially in the  sentence below.

Forgive me, I haven't been to this thread in a while....The implication is there of "what" exactly?

Your denial is important because there are people who are preaching just that and the believers lose confidence in themselves, loose hope and cannot contemplate a future that does not involve the active benevolent participation of white people.

Denial of what exactly? If anything I am FOR people not only contemplating but HAVING a 'future that does not involve the active and very anti-benevolent oppression and exploitation of a system of white supremacy.

History is replete with empires, some quite petty but all represent the same phenomena: imperialism. I would not know where to draw the line. When an empire is too big, etc. and so I cannot see anything special in size or the fact that some empires cross oceans.

Your opinion, which is fine. I don't agree, and I would use the trans-Atlantic Slave trade and global imperialism as my reasons.

Migration may be the most common human phenomena. If you go to Nigeria all the people there, except maybe the Ibos and the Pigmies, will tell you themselves that the came from somewhere else. They beat up the people that were there before and took their lands.

You are referring to the march of the Bantu which was instigated by the expanding Saharah dessert and Arab invasions. Yes their were conflicts between the migrating Bantu and the indigenous people of Western and Central/Southern Africa...conflicst that occur between any grouping of people fighting over natural resources and land.(mind you they did not migrate because of greed, but more out of necessity from the Nile Valley region...Yoruba people for example). Usually the dominant group would absorb the 'defeated' group. I don't think that is comparable to what happenned with European colonialism and the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade.

European expansion and posses of various territories around the world was not a special European phenomenon.

Then explain why Africans went arond the globe milennia before and did not set up a global "empire".

I myself believe that if they did not have superior weapons technologies they would still be fighting the people of Americas to this day or they would have been force to compromise with them.

Believe or know/understand? One can believe anything.

As for culture, I would say it is the determining factor in this whole mystery. But culture can be learned the way one learns arithmetic in school. Any people who fail to learn the culture of survival are going to get what is coming to them.

On this we agree. And a culture of survival would be one that has man cooperating with nature for his survival not 'domnating' it9nature0...or his fellow man because of a superiority complex.

[jemba]

Hotep

Oshun auset said

You are referring to the march of the Bantu which was instigated by the expanding Saharah dessert and Arab invasions. Yes their were conflicts between the migrating Bantu and the indigenous people of Western and Central/Southern Africa...conflicst that occur between any grouping of people fighting over natural resources and land.(mind you they did not migrate because of greed, but more out of necessity from the Nile Valley region...Yoruba people for example). Usually the dominant group would absorb the 'defeated' group. I don't think that is comparable to what happenned with European colonialism and the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade.

 Guybaux said

Migration may be the most common human phenomena. If you go to Nigeria all the people there, except maybe the Ibos and the Pigmies, will tell you themselves that the came from somewhere else. They beat up the people that were there before and took their lands.



Jemba says


You are both saying that the Bantus never knew where they where going and or who was there and where they where going to.

They never had a map of afrika, they never knew the languages of the countries which they themselves founded and left.

This is exactly why afrikans need to learn their history from afrikans and not from second hand material by the Europeans.

We Bantus set up an empire from the south of afrika which is now the north to the north of afrika which is now the south.

Who do you think showed the Europeans how to create a nation and how to govern lands, we created federal states everywhere we went and left one ruler but the nation only had one king imagine how much discipline that would take.

The thing the Europeans will never overstand is religion politics and science is one and the same and what us bantus do is mirror the heavens. The same way the most highs deities govern our over world after death of the flesh is the same way we govern our world.

[guybaux]

And part of the 'prescribed conditions' is a global order of Euromean/White supremacy. Like I stated B4... White supremacy is still the order of the day. And that means Black is still at the bottom of the caste system. If you don't get that then....

White supremacy is only the order of the day because the competition is not good enough to over turn it. It cannot be for another reason. We all live in a competitive environment, even if you could magically remove the white people it would still be competitive and we would still be at the bottom of the “caste system”. Why are people so upset about the top performer when they are not playing in that league? Black people are now succumbing to the forth and fifth tier competitors while their would be champions are far from the scenes of their misery. If they are at the bottom of the ladder, whose responsibility it is to elevate them?  Does it not make sense for them to concentrate their efforts on out performing those that are next to them in the hierarchy rather than trying to beat the top achiever?

[guybaux]

Your opinion, which is fine. I don't agree, and I would use the trans-Atlantic Slave trade and global imperialism as my reasons.

The pro-Africans really feel the pain of their enslaved ancestors. You are establishing arbitrary thresholds. The Africans were migrating, conquering lands and peoples, the Arabs were migrating conquering lands and the Africans: along came the Europeans and conquered both groups. All three groups were involved in the same type of activity only the proportions are different.  God only knows how many millions of Africans were enslaved by the Arabs and Turks. They are not putting up any web sites because they castrated all the males.

You may not notice but the white people are absorbing the black people in the Americas.
In many places the Black people has disappeared. They are been absorbed in United States too. By the complaints that some people make they are really saying the process is not going fast enough.

Then explain why Africans went arond the globe milennia before and did not set up a global "empire".  

This issue of Africans circumnavigating the globe keeps coming up.
Let us look at the sequence. Some people came to the Americas from Asia, they establish major population. Then the Africans came, they vanish from the earth. Then the Europeans came, they establish major populations. I do not know why the Africans cannot establish major populations outside of Africa. Why does any body want to build a major theory around something that did not happen? The Africans were in Egypt too, before the Arabs, maybe the same thing happened to them.

Believe or know/understand? One can believe anything.

Come now! You find hard to accept that the Indians would have held their own if the white people were fighting with the same weapons systems?

On this we agree. And a culture of survival would be one that has man cooperating with nature for his survival not 'domnating' it9nature0...or his fellow man because of a superiority complex.

Man is only going to cooperate with nature to the degree that he cannot control it. We will not know what is wrong for the relationship with nature until it starts to go wrong.
It has started to go wrong now. People are reacting. Quite likely there will be disasters on  earth because of human activity but the industrial societies will be more able to weather the storms and when the smoke has cleared all the pre-industrial peoples would have been swept from the face of the earth. And it will not matter whether it was caused by greed or altruism, love or hate.


Why is it that people cannot see that the “superiority complex” of Europeans have an historical context. For centuries they were regularly defeating people with fewer men and less resources. They naturally came to the conclusion that they were superior.  Europeans now believe that they have a superior culture and they are very busy telling people all over the world that if follow their lead, things will work out. Are there not enough examples of this? The Chinese definitely had a superiority complex before the Europeans beat it out of them, so did the Japanese. The Japanese has since shown the Europeans-and all the rest of humanity-that their industrial prowess is nothing to do with their history, their blood line or their geography.

[guybaux]

Jemba says


You are both saying that the Bantus never knew where they where going and or who was there and where they where going to.

They never had a map of afrika, they never knew the languages of the countries which they themselves founded and left.

This is exactly why afrikans need to learn their history from afrikans and not from second hand material by the Europeans.

We Bantus set up an empire from the south of afrika which is now the north to the north of afrika which is now the south.

Who do you think showed the Europeans how to create a nation and how to govern lands, we created federal states everywhere we went and left one ruler but the nation only had one king imagine how much discipline that would take.

The thing the Europeans will never overstand is religion politics and science is one and the same and what us bantus do is mirror the heavens. The same way the most highs deities govern our over world after death of the flesh is the same way we govern our world.

Not so good at these kinds of riddles at all.
Are you proudly saying that the Bantus sat up great empires, imperialistic regimes?

well, the queen of heaven would not like that at all.

For me it is neither here nor there. It was a global trend. Conquer or be conquered. Build your own empire or be built into one.
In our age it is spheres of influence. The relationship will continue to evolve.


As for science, politics and relegion been the same thing, yes I agree. But people need to break things down into manageable parts. The potential of that process is over whelming  to those who ignore it.


But what inspire you to pick on the Europeans as been particularly devoid of spiritual potential?

[jemba]

HOTEP Guybaux


Referring to the migration of the “Bantus”

The only afrikans who are not Bantus in Nubian land afrika are the pigmy’s and the mixed race or mutlato race.

The Bantus spread there empires from central afrika and west afrika to the south of afrika where Egypt now is and then back down again to libya and to the Zulus and then back to the centre of afrika where they created the bakongo empire which includes all the countries that are in the centre of afrika Cameroon gabon Angola Uganda and the rest.

Guybaux said

Migration may be the most common human phenomena. If you go to Nigeria all the people there, except maybe the Ibos and the Pigmies, will tell you themselves that the came from somewhere else. They beat up the people that were there before and took their lands.


Jemba

That’s not right before you move to a knew land just like when you come from Europe to America you will need permission to come and settle in the land.

Afrikans where not unorganised savages the Europeans brought disorganization to us we had our own system and we kept in contact with each other and we knew who was in what territory  and how to get there and what resources they had and what languages they spoke.

How did the Egyptians get gold and silver and rafis and cotton into Egypt, by trading peacefully with the same empires which their Bantu ancestors built?

It’s a law in nature that there must be a ruling force or country to where ever the mani or pharaoh was every country in afrika paid tribute to HIM yearly honouring their ancestors tradition.

We may think that we are civilised or capable of things the human race in the past where not capable of but where wrong.

Guybaux said

But what inspire you to pick on the Europeans as been particularly devoid of spiritual potential?


Jemba

They don’t but they where not created to rule this earth either, like you said they have a problem with keeping themselves to themselves.
Maybe one day us Nubians will live this planet and they will have an opportunity to rule but as god dictates we must rule as long as we are here.
They also have a problem with discipline.

[Oshun_Auset]

You are both saying that the Bantus never knew where they where going and or who was there and where they where going to.

They never had a map of afrika, they never knew the languages of the countries which they themselves founded and left.

This is exactly why afrikans need to learn their history from afrikans and not from second hand material by the Europeans.

We Bantus set up an empire from the south of afrika which is now the north to the north of afrika which is now the south.

Who do you think showed the Europeans how to create a nation and how to govern lands, we created federal states everywhere we went and left one ruler but the nation only had one king imagine how much discipline that would take.

The thing the Europeans will never overstand is religion politics and science is one and the same and what us bantus do is mirror the heavens. The same way the most highs deities govern our over world after death of the flesh is the same way we govern our world.

When did either of us say that? Please stop putting words in our(or at least my) posts Jemba.  There have been empires that have risen and fallen on the African continent for millenia, there have been cross continental trading routes that existed for millenia. There have been interactions thoughout the African continent for millenia. I'm quite sure the Bantus actually new exactly where they/we were marching to at the time. All I said was the reason for the particular incident of what is now called the march of the Banu. that occured 2000 years ago, was the expanding Saharah dessert and the Arab invasions.

Please stop acting like you are the only one who has studied ancient African history from African centered African historians. This site alone has tons of material on what you have mentioned(which is not what we were discussing and that is why it wasn't adressed in our posts).

What you have stated is the equivalent of this.

Two people are talking about Dessert Storm, and you  criticizing them for not mentioning the Amerikkkan revolution. We were dealing with one particular incident.

Baba doesn't mean father everywhere for no reason.

[Oshun_Auset]

White supremacy is only the order of the day because the competition is not good enough to over turn it. It cannot be for another reason.

"Good enough"? We just aren't organized enough. "Good" is a strange word to use, especially in this scenario...

We all live in a competitive environment, even if you could magically remove the white people it would still be competitive and we would still be at the bottom of the “caste system”.

Nobody is trying to make European/Whites "majically dissappear"... My objective is to eliminate the SYSTEM of white supremacy, and therefore eliminate the colour caste system that is one of it's tools of oppression and exploitation.

Why are people so upset about the top performer when they are not playing in that league?

What? If the system of whote supremacy sets up the rules of the game(for lack of a better analogy) Why would we not want to destroy the elite pigs who set up, and use the system to their ultmate benefit?

Are you talking about releaving the symptoms of cnacer instead of curing it by getting at the root cause?

Black people are now succumbing to the forth and fifth tier competitors while their would be champions are far from the scenes of their misery. If they are at the bottom of the ladder, whose responsibility it is to elevate them?  Does it not make sense for them to concentrate their efforts on out performing those that are next to them in the hierarchy rather than trying to beat the top achiever?

No it doesn't make sense. If you play by the rules of the oppressor you are letting them still control the game. We are talking about switching the game up all together. I guess this means you are confortable with a system of white supremacy then? You aren't talking about destroying it but rather you are saying to "play along"...very strange. Very anti-human. Very Euro-scientific.

[Oshun_Auset]

The pro-Africans really feel the pain of their enslaved ancestors. You are establishing arbitrary thresholds. The Africans were migrating, conquering lands and peoples, the Arabs were migrating conquering lands and the Africans: along came the Europeans and conquered both groups. All three groups were involved in the same type of activity only the proportions are different.  God only knows how many millions of Africans were enslaved by the Arabs and Turks. They are not putting up any web sites because they castrated all the males.

The Sidis(African people of India that recently visited their cousins in Zanzibar) and the African Iraquis would disagree with you. They both still exist and sing their ceremonial songs in Swahili. They both are marginalized by poverty and colurism(sound familiar) so the masses of people don't know about them. I've posted about them on this site.

By the way we don't just feel the pain of our ancestors. We are in pain now under oppression and exploitation.

You may not notice but the white people are absorbing the black people in the Americas.
In many places the Black people has disappeared.

This is largely a myth(created by the oppressive elite). The African/Black populations are marginalized by poverty and colourism in their respective countries of location. Although miscegination has occured at a higher rate in Central and South America(much more with the also oppressed indigenous people than with the European ruling elite) the African Black populations are quite visible and distinctly seperated by socio-economic status and physical location. Even in places like Puerto Rico where the miscegination rate is as high as it was(over 80% of the population has some African genetic history) there are still 2 seperate African/Black 'slums'...one being Luiza. I just posted on the African/Black people of Argentinia and Bolivia.  

They are been absorbed in United States too. By the complaints that some people make they are really saying the process is not going fast enough.

Are you serious? It's mainlychocolate sities here!... BTW I noticed you used the term 'they' when referring the African/Black people in the U.S....Are you European/White? Or are you just not located in the U.S.? If you are in the U.S. please point out where this 'absorbtion' of African/Blakc folks is taking place. I would love to know...Have nver seen it myself.

I think you are confusing ignoring African/Black communities with 'absorbing' them.

This issue of Africans circumnavigating the globe keeps coming up.
Let us look at the sequence. Some people came to the Americas from Asia, they establish major population. Then the Africans came, they vanish from the earth. Then the Europeans came, they establish major populations. I do not know why the Africans cannot establish major populations outside of Africa. Why does any body want to build a major theory around something that did not happen? The Africans were in Egypt too, before the Arabs, maybe the same thing happened to them.

You really need to reevaluate your take on history by reading the archives and suggested reading on this site. Your sequencing is way off.

There were hundreds of 40,000 year old African/Australoid skulls found in Brazil, along with rock paintings that depicted the coming of the Asiatics(by these African/Australoids). The African/Astraloid poluations were absorbed by the Asiatics who came in larger numbers and there are some of their genetic offspring living at the Southern tip of South Amerikkka. The Asiatics were 2nd to this land. Then the Mende speaking people came as traders and established the Olmec civilization. they were of smaller numbers than the Asiatics so they also were absorbed. There cultures were also humanist based. So unlike the apartheid regimes set up by Europeans when they have contact with other peoples... Therefore ceating pretty much distinct populations based on a racial hierarchy... They were absorbed. Egypt is Africa genious. The Hyksos invaded, the Persians, the Marmalouks, the Romans, and the Greeks, ect. Blakc Africans were the ones who established and continued to rule through the dynastic period until the Persians(and the bried hyksos period)...I see why we are not agreeing now. Your take on history seems very Eurocentric.

Come now! You find hard to accept that the Indians would have held their own if the white people were fighting with the same weapons systems?

If you study the Indigenous/Native Amerikkkan 'tribal' form of warfare before and under their confederacy...their culture would not permit the genocidal type of warfare that the Europeans performed on them as a people. They never totally dessimated their opponent. Only a few people would be killed because they respected life too much. Usually about 14 people or so. Notive they welcomed and shared the land with the Europeans when they first arrived. Like I said before, culture is a large determining factor in societal behavior.

Now, once they were under full genocidal colonial attack, if they had the same weaponry they would have been more successful in defending themsleves and their land.

Man is only going to cooperate with nature to the degree that he cannot control it. We will not know what is wrong for the relationship with nature until it starts to go wrong.
It has started to go wrong now. People are reacting. Quite likely there will be disasters on  earth because of human activity but the industrial societies will be more able to weather the storms and when the smoke has cleared all the pre-industrial peoples would have been swept from the face of the earth. And it will not matter whether it was caused by greed or altruism, love or hate.

I think it will be quite the opposite. In the industrialized nations man is over dependent on technology and when nature has the inevatable result of responding to the horrendous conditions created by it's abuse....It is the people closest to nature that will fair the best.

BTW I think a little Western arrogance has crept into your post at this point. Since African people and other indigenous people have been on this planet for millenia, and their have been rising and falling of empires, kingdoms, civilizations, ect. Wouldn't it be these people that would be practicing the more tried and tested form of life? Western man is often arrogant enough to think he has 'invented' and discovered new things...that his is the highest form of civilization...When actually it is the youngest. Youth and inexperience often breeds arrogance. I think Western man will learn the lessons of our ancestors. If you don't live with nature...it will bite you in the proverbial ass... That lesson will be learned by the youngest group on the earth, sooner than later. The people that still follow the ways of their ancestors will fair much better IMO.

Why is it that people cannot see that the “superiority complex” of Europeans have an historical context. For centuries they were regularly defeating people with fewer men and less resources. They naturally came to the conclusion that they were superior.  Europeans now believe that they have a superior culture and they are very busy telling people all over the world that if follow their lead, things will work out. Are there not enough examples of this? The Chinese definitely had a superiority complex before the Europeans beat it out of them, so did the Japanese. The Japanese has since shown the Europeans-and all the rest of humanity-that their industrial prowess is nothing to do with their history, their blood line or their geography.

Notions of superiority are developped out of an inferiority complex...much like the schoolyard bully. I don't expect you to understand that one though.

Honestly...keep reading the site.

I see why we don't agree now.

[jemba]

Oshun_auset

I'm quite sure the Bantus actually new exactly where they/we were marching to at the time.

Jemba

You mean to say I know where the Bantus where going and who their pharaoh was at that time and who he left occupying his throne.




Oshun_auset


Please stop acting like you are the only one who has studied ancient African history from African cantered African historians.


Jemba

I am not I just have a different source of information which is not written by Europeans and that makes me feel more secure.

When it comes to information the Europeans will never give us 100% of anything
So it’s better to get it from our own.

Oshun_auset

This site alone has tons of material on what you have mentioned(which is not what we were discussing and that is why it wasn't adressed in our posts).

Jemba

Ill search for it but I am not sure I will find a hundred %.


Gyubaux said

White supremacy is only the order of the day because the competition is not good enough to over turn it. It cannot be for another reason. We all live in a competitive environment, even if you could magically remove the white people it would still be competitive and we would still be at the bottom of the "caste system". Why are people so upset about the top performer when they are not playing in that league? Black people are now succumbing to the forth and fifth tier competitors while their would be champions are far from the scenes of their misery. If they are at the bottom of the ladder, whose responsibility it is to elevate them?  Does it not make sense for them to concentrate their efforts on out performing those that are next to them in the hierarchy rather than trying to beat the top achiever?

Jemba

This is what I have been trying to say in all my posts on black revolution and you

We should learn from the Japanese after the Hiroshima bombing, the japanes where sent down the chain of command, they took their defeat very humbly and built a relationship with the Americans because they knew who was at the top of the chain.

The Japanese sent their people to live in America as spies and they stole a lot of info to set up the technology we see in their country now.


Nubians should use the same silent strategies, instead of going up against the Europeans head on, we don’t want to encourage a race war because where not ready for that.