White Rasta Reasoning

[Erik D.]

I read the article about White Rastas being encouraged to reason up, and figured I'd start a thread on it.

One thing I know, is that it's hard for white people to give up power, especially those of us who have no worldly power, and have instead been oppressed and held down by our own fellow white people. 

Then some black folks tell us that it's white folks who are to blame for black peoples problems, lumping those of us who've been victimized by other white people, in with those misguided whites doing the victimizing.

There are a lot of mistreated white people in this world, who were held down, abused and kept in poverty by other white people, so alienating us by attacking all white people as a group is inaccurate and counterproductive.

As the nyabinghi said, the problem is oppressors (or "downpressors"), whether they be black or white, so that's where the discussion should focus... not on race or skin color, but on righteousness and unrighteousness, and who is committing which.

I also disagree that we should wish death on anyone.  It's beneath us as Rastas, who are held to a higher standard in thought, motive, speech and conduct.

I'm not saying that I've never indulged in hateful thoughts of ill will towards those that hurt me, but when I did it just lowered me and my state of consciousness as a person, and decreased my ability to reach the unenlightened person with reason and compassion.

There's an old saying: "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."

Meaning that you reach and effect more people in a positive way when you use postive methods.  Almost all people naturally recoil from negativity.

Our goal should be to make the world a better place, by leading ourselves and others away from selfish, ignorant and destructive thinking and actions... our goal should not to be to punish, frighten or hurt anyone.

Punishment comes from within, by the conviction of the awakening holy spirit of God (Jah) Love within a person... so we should strive to awaken that spirit slowly, gently and lovingly, so as not to hurt anyone.

There has been enough pain in this world... let's strive to soothe that pain and heal the destructive effects of it which we've seen and felt all around us.

Peace.

[Erik D.]

I'm happy to hail the King of Kings, Almighty God, Emperor Haile Selassie I.

But let's also remember that Ras Tafari said that "religion is a private matter" and that "men and women of different faiths should work together".  Let us not delve too deeply into other peoples religion, which is a private matter between them and the Most High God, whichever name they choose to call HIM, and whichever path they choose to approach HIM from.

By refraining from arguing over religion, we can get on with the business of working together with our fellow human beings in good faith, to make our world, our human family, our lives, and our earthly home, the best that they can be.

We've got a lot of work to do, because racism, militarism, materialism, religious hatred, immorality, unnaturality and unrighteousness are still in abundance upon the Earth, and it's going to take all of us working together in good faith to spread the truth of One Love to our brothers and sisters of whatever skin shade they may happen to be, and wherever on Earth they happen to reside.

Some possible goals, under the guidance of The Most High God, Jah, Ras Tafari, are Peace, Love, Righteousness, Joy, Clean Food, Clean Water, Health, Education, Rewarding Work, Clothing and Shelter for all the peoples of the Earth.

There are so many of our brothers and sisters in our human family going without these things right now, and if we work together, we can surely solve these problems, and raise ourselves, our brothers and sisters, and our planet, up to the level where Jah wants it to be.

Who among you is willing to come together and engage in discussion to put aside our past differences, resolve our current misunderstandings, and come to mutual understanding as to how we can work together to make our lives and the lives of our fellow human beings on this planet better?

I look forward to reasoning up and working with you all, and am very happy to meet you all.

Let me first start by extending an apology for the injustices and brutalities of the racism that has been displayed towards black people by many white nations and political systems.  The sins of the past can never be wished away, but with the help of Almighty God, only forgiven, and learned from, so that they are never repeated again.

If there are any questions or concerns that anyone has, let us come together to discuss and address them, so that we can build the trust and understanding that is so essential towards mutual co-operation.

[orangerevolt]

     You have some points. And I could be misunderstanding what you are saying. For the most part I agree. But the "white privilege" is more than just that. It is not so much of what you feel and experience. It is more about what you are privileged not to feel and experience. If someone is white (as it is commonly understood) then that person could very easily go through the whole day without having to worry about whether racism actually exists or not. That person could come in contact with a person from every walk of life, but that is different than being constantly reminded that racism is a continuing problem. So it is not so much that one man puts down another man. It is more than that. Let me try to explain.

   If there is a job interview, a 'white' person will automatically assume that they will generally be liked unless they do something which causes others to go against them. If you of color, then it is the opposite, you do not make that assumption, and you worry more about proving that you are not like the rest of 'them''. They don't have to think about how the person interviewing them, will react when they learn that they are not white. This same person, would expect to be treated with a certain amount of respect by strangers. If they are not, it is assumed that the stranger was having a bad day, or that is how they treat all people, either way, they know that the comment or disrespect was about them specifically and don't have to worry about whether it was racist or not.

     And then think of something as simple as speech. No matter how intelligent or not intelligent a white person may be, the speech patterns are in a manner that automatically associates them with dominance in society. The same with writing, to a person of color, in many places it is taken as a surprise that that person is capable of such a thing. A white person enjoys the encouragement of teachers, it is not something that is written off as a waste of time.

     And it comes down to more than that. A white person lives in the same world they work in. In most cases there is no worries about a sub-culture and the dominant one. There is never a worry of a white person having to look too European or they might loose their job. A white person can look like crap one day with hair a mess and only sweatpants on they are not taken for some criminal. It's the total opposite case if you are not white.

     So it is more than just white people playing down others. It is things that as white, you don't have to think about.... are privileged not to think about. I hope that helps....or even contributes. Sorry if I totally misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

Peace... in HIS name

[Erik D.]

Did you notice how the moment we started talking about religion the whole conversation devolved and nothing concrete got accomplished?

Religion is a personal matter.  We are all free to believe and not believe what we want in the realm of religion.

Let's focus on practical matters, and on getting real things accomplished.

[melaninmagic]

I have always wondered why it is that whenever a discussion or forum is created to discuss the effects of 400+ years of oppression and violence due to the system of racism/white supremacy, targeted on the ascendants of Afrikan ('Black') slaves by 'White' people,, 'White' people, without fail,  somehow manage to divert attention to the injustices they have suffered, all be they trifling in comparison.

Then some black folks tell us that it's white folks who are to blame for black peoples problems, lumping those of us who've been victimized by other white people, in with those misguided whites doing the victimizing.

There are a lot of mistreated white people in this world, who were held down, abused and kept in poverty by other white people, so alienating us by attacking all white people as a group is inaccurate and counterproductive.

Why is this Eric D?

[Iniko Ujaama]

I do agree with you melaninmagic concerning the tendency to diversion and very much appreciate the perspective (elaboration on the depth of the implication of racism) shared here by orangerevolt. It must be understood that racism is not just something that happened in the past and disappeared, nor is it something which we of this generation are totally untouched by in our everyday experiences and in our consciousness. Our biases run so deep into the crevices of our being. Colourism(as welll as other biases...sexism etc) is far from gone from the consciousness of many Africans including myself much less racist biases in the consciousness of Caucasians who can comfortably harbour those in the present world context.  It is important to appreciate the depth of its effects on our consciousness and that of others for us to begin to crawl out of it and "come together". It will be difficult to properly assist in curbing the world's problems if we are carrying around these pieces of baggage.

Further, with regard to religion and I do agree with Erik D. that it is a personal matter. However we should be naive about the extent to which biases ingrained in the World's dominant religions pervade every aspect of our societies; how the assumptions and dogmas of such affect our ability to reason various issues. Some examples would be the kind of matter of fact denigration of African Religion, the debasement and disempowerment of women, denial of the common black origin etc etc. While i do not think ones need to attack others on their particular form of worship,  would it not be relevant in reasoning generally to look at the historical contexts of the views which pervade our societies (and even result in biases against other forms of religion)? Also should we not also interrogate the role of such religions in oppression historically and currently.

I think there are many issues which maintain prime significance to reason before we talk about being one happy family. We should be wary of trying to engage in a oneness while leaving the reality of our biases and the very important issues out the door and not reasoned out. I think much of this has been reasoned on before, but it is always a new reasoning. perhaps it may help, Erik D for you to check out this article

http://www.rootsie.com/articles/2004/1906.html

I do hope it sheds some light
I U

[Hon Joshua I]

Blessed love my Lord and Empress. Do give thanks for life and the mighty life giver, Holy Emmanuel I Selassie I Jah Rastafari. Man say there are only two worlds, the Black world and the white world. One would have to make a decision where one stands in this last judgement, and to the bredren who start this thread, overstand that one can be caucasian and NOT white, still. Can the I's sight what I am trying to say? Black Christ Salvation stand for all, Holy Emmanuel I Selassie I Jah Rastafari! Just hold the RIGHT and let go the wrong. Give thanks for your patient hearing and overstanding. Blessed Love

[afrikanrebel06]

I have always wondered why it is that whenever a discussion or forum is created to discuss the effects of 400+ years of oppression and violence due to the system of racism/white supremacy, targeted on the ascendants of Afrikan ('Black') slaves by 'White' people,, 'White' people, without fail,  somehow manage to divert attention to the injustices they have suffered, all be they trifling in comparison.

Then some black folks tell us that it's white folks who are to blame for black peoples problems, lumping those of us who've been victimized by other white people, in with those misguided whites doing the victimizing.

There are a lot of mistreated white people in this world, who were held down, abused and kept in poverty by other white people, so alienating us by attacking all white people as a group is inaccurate and counterproductive.

Why is this Eric D?




I AGREE WITH YOU,MELANIM MAGIC. IT IS BECAUSE THE NEGROES IN THIS SITE,DONT CHECK DEM, THEY CANT STEP INTO ME, JUST LIKE THAT, THE PROBLEM IS THAT EUROPEANS,ARABS AND ASIANS ARE PILLAGING THE WORLDS LARGEST MINERAL RESOURCES,THE HIDDEN HANDS ARE THE  THE ILLUMINATI HIGH FINANCES,JEWS AS ONE  WALL STREET INVESTOR BOUGHTA BIG 400 000 ACRERS OF LAND IN SOUTHERN SUDAN, IF WHITE PEOPLE JOIN THIS SITE, ADMINS AND MODS ARE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, SCREW DEM THEY HAVENT SUFFERED ANYTHING, BUT HAVE ONLY RAPED,TORTURED AND MAIMED, NATIVES,AFRIKANS AND OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR,THEY ARE NOT HYGIENIC,THE REASON BEING IS BECAUSE PEOPLE HERE HAVENT READ YURUGU,BY MARIMBA ANI. f*** ERIC D,BECAUSEA CRACKA IS CRACKA, NO MATTER WHAT,I HAVE IDENTIFIED THE ENEMIES OF ANKHEBURAN,AFRIKA, AMAMWHITES,ARABS,PERSIANS

[EmpresKeneilwe]

Greetings

I have always wondered why it is that whenever a discussion or forum is created to discuss the effects of 400+ years of oppression and violence due to the system of racism/white supremacy, targeted on the ascendants of Afrikan ('Black') slaves by 'White' people,, 'White' people, without fail,  somehow manage to divert attention to the injustices they have suffered, all be they trifling in comparison.

Then some black folks tell us that it's white folks who are to blame for black peoples problems, lumping those of us who've been victimized by other white people, in with those misguided whites doing the victimizing.

There are a lot of mistreated white people in this world, who were held down, abused and kept in poverty by other white people, so alienating us by attacking all white people as a group is inaccurate and counterproductive.

Why is this Eric D?

Most of the time (white) people do this when they expect everyone to feel sorry for them, thus shifting the attention to them. They like hogging the spotlight.

I think the misunderstanding when topics like colorism and racism are discussed, people tend to think that we, blacks, are feeling sorry for ourselves, and whereas that is not the case. We are simply dealing with issues that affect us directly. Whites arent necessarily faced with such things on a daily basis. Maybe classism. Even gender discrimination has alleviated a bit. So people in general need to overstand why such matters are discussed frequently. We need to vent as much as possible, so people may get the big main picture.

My question is that, do you think that if a white person is filthy rich or part of the elite that controls the masses, he would even think of giving this forum the time of day? May be. I dont think so. You see the point is that, whites who complain about "blacks...lumping those of us who've been victimized by other white people, in with those misguided whites doing the victimizing." as Erik D put it, only need to be rich, I mean stinking rich to escape being victimized by the system. You are already white. You dont have much to worry about. Although still being kept captive (mentally) within the system. People of color on the other hand, more so blacks, have a lot of work. You go through racism, colorism, sexism, classism and African identity crisis. It hurts even more when all this is coming from those who are suppsedly your bredren and sistren. Your fellow educated black-middle class people.

Kgotso le Lerato
Keneilwe

[Erik D.]

MelaninMagic,

My post was not about comparing sufferings, but of illustrating that many white people drawn to Ras Tafari are drawn so because they have experienced the flaws of the Babylon system personally (though not for being black), and so feel a kinship in spirit with others who have been victimized by that same system, and want to work together to change it.

[Erik D.]

That article by Rootsie, insulting Ras Adam, a man I don't know and have never met, but who appears to have made efforts to spread Rasta consciousness... that article was very ill conceived.  The accusations in it come across as condescending and borderline treacherous.

Jah Ras Tafari calls and chooses men and women of different races for HIS purposes, not your purposes, so it is not your place to question someone elses presence in Ras Tafari consciousness circles, provided their behaviour is not belligerent, destructive or divisive.

The problems we face on this planet AS A HUMAN RACE are systemic and logistical... they are not the fault of particular individual light skinned Rastas and what is or is not presumably in their unconscious.

Racism and hate exist all over, in all ethnic and religious groups... whites killing whites in Europe, blacks killing blacks in Africa, whites killing blacks in Russia,  blacks killing whites in Zimbabwe, Muslims, Christians and Jews killing each other in the Middle East... we've got a world full of problems, caused by insane people from every racial, ethnic and religious group, so please, let us refrain from attacking other individual members of this site or any Rasta or peace movements, particularly with skin tone based attacks.

[afrikanrebel06]

   are we supposed to feel sorry for you erick d, or cry for u history has shown time and time again the evil of that whiteman is, also the tamahu and anu is described in dogon cosmology as evil,your ancestors have raped,tortured,maimed and killed people, now,they use by the means of proxy wars,u have stolen our cultural artifacts,manuscripts and many more,many of you european descedants have desecrated the sacred burrial grounds of our ancestors,the sarcophagus of our ancestors, introduced small pox to the indigenous populations, introduced aids/hiv virus to kill off afrikan populations, by the way, guns are not manufactured in the ghettoes of amerikkka, latin amerika, central amerikkka, it is amerikkka,britain selling weapon,white people is part of problem and not part of the solution, because all yall do is to patronize us and minimize our sufferings,heck we have jews making up numbers,judaism started in afrika, judaism is not a race,more than 50 million afrikans died because arabs and europeans, trans atlantic slave trade, trans saharan slave trade,king leopolds reign of terror 35 million afrikans died,everyday somewhere in amerikkka somebody is being brutalized by racist cops,who has brought crack into our communities? white people,who has killed lots of our social activists and put them in jail? white people( man) who has raped our foremothers in the slave plantation? whiteman,who hung and castrated blackman in the south? whiteman,
who firebombed, church in the south? whiteman,the list goes on and on,if white kills white,thats fatricide,i dont care, actually,they will be helping us to rid themselves from the face of the planet, if they kill us, it is genocide,africans are killing africans because,there is middleman involved, called european or whiteman, who will sell  weapons to one group and the other and then watch on the sidelines, the other factor is that white arabs are also killing afrikans,as i said i have identified the enemies of afrikan peoples, arabs,europeans,chinese and uncle tom sell outs.

[EmpresKeneilwe]

Jah Ras Tafari calls and chooses men and women of different races for HIS purposes, not your purposes, so it is not your place to question someone elses presence in Ras Tafari consciousness circles, provided their behaviour is not belligerent, destructive or divisive.

The problems we face on this planet AS A HUMAN RACE are systemic and logistical... they are not the fault of particular individual light skinned Rastas and what is or is not presumably in their unconscious.

Rasta is a black, dealing with black problems.
What I’ve learnt from the majority of whites, and blacks (white souls in black skins – slaves, which ever tickles your fancy) on this board, is that they feel they have every right in the world to “have” their way here.

It’s so easy to say, we are all going through the same problems. On which on face value it may seem so, but the depths of racism are often misunderstood. Racism, colorism and classism still and have always played a major role in the “divide and rule” mechanism. You come with this one love thing that was possibly made famous by Bob Marley. Rasta is serious business. Every angry real black African/Rasta has every right to question the motives of whites and coconuts that want to mingle with them. You tricked us before, you cannot do it again.

You have no clue what blacks go through on a daily basis. Even I, as a black woman cannot tell anyone how to feel or react. Your mentality that “I didn’t do it, my ancestors did – why blame me for their actions?” or “my ancestors were also oppressed by other whites” will always get you burnt on this forum. Your knee-jerk reaction says it all. Why not humble yourself?
You come in a man’s house, and tell him how to run his household…that is just wrong. I don’t think that you would let another do that to you. You kicked us down before, your father’s system still does that even today, and then you still have the odesity to tell us how to react to that kick, tell us when and how to feel the pain. Your stubbornness is pathetic.

I’m people on this board are willing to assist you in overstanding such matters. We need to regain trust amongst ourselves before we can start fighting for everyone else. Else we'll never get over killing each other, but instead we'll continue fighting on behalf of the oppressor to wipe ourselves out. As much as we are the HUMAN RACE, we first need to save the BLACK RACE first, just like the WHITE RACE and all other races fight for theirs to keep WHITE PRIVILEDGE going. We fight for Our IDENTITY, for the sake of our ancestors who were ripped off theirs. If us fighting for what's right for us, why question it? If that to you means BLACK SUPREMAC, then so be it. WHITE SUPREMACY is on-going. And so is Arab Muslim Supremacy is also strong. So why not BLACK SUPREMACY.

Kgotso (Peace)

[melaninmagic]

and so feel a kinship in spirit with others who have been victimized by that same system, and want to work together to change it.

The most effective way for a white person to halt this corrupt, perverse European-made system is not to grow rasta locks and integrate with the power-LESS and oppressed non-white peoples of the world, but instead, to infiltrate and integrate with the power-FULL and oppressive white people, and effect positive change by undermining and collapsing their system of exploitation from within. You are the only ones capable of doing this.

In essence, you'd be doing a far greater service to the oppressed peoples of this planet if you use your white privilege to collapse the system from the inside.

I am MAD tired of you white folk integrating with Afrikan High-Kulture, while  exploiting it for your benefit. It is quite obvious that all you are really attempting to do is use Afrikan culture as a crutch to help you sleep better at night, when horrors of what your direct descendants have done to Afrikan peoples is revealed to you for the first time in your sheltered lives.

I excercise zero tolerance for that type of bullshit. For real.

[Erik D.]

So many diverse posts.

If the owners of this forum want to get anything accomplished here, some moderation of these discussions might be in order.

Regarding African high culture... all people come from Africa... specifically Ethiopia.

The human race is one big family, whether people want to acknowledge that or not.

Why not black supremacy, in response to white supremacy?

Because countering one untruth with another untruth doesn't solve anything.

Only the Truth can overcome untruth.

Regarding my ancestors... they didn't own slaves or profit from slavery.  They were forced to come to North America by the king of France, because he wanted to use them as soldiers to fight the English, and breeding stock to populate colonized territory... specifically Canada.

After the wars between the kings of France and England finally ended, my ancestors returned to living off the land, trapping and trading furs with the Native Americans (Indians), with some intermarrying, and they eventually making their way down to New England to work in the textile mills.

My ancestors have been poor and working class people for all of our generations as far back as I can trace.

So, to insult me and other white people that you don't really know is ignorant and counterproductive.

That being said, I'll probaby refrain from posting to this thread anymore, unless other posters can remain logical, because there's nothing to be gained from trading insults and hostility.